Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!husc6!think!ames!oliveb!sun!plaid!chuq From: chuq%plaid@Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) Newsgroups: comp.text.desktop Subject: Re: Xerography or Offset? Message-ID: <18892@sun.uucp> Date: Thu, 14-May-87 19:46:04 EDT Article-I.D.: sun.18892 Posted: Thu May 14 19:46:04 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 16-May-87 12:11:05 EDT Sender: news@sun.uucp Distribution: comp Lines: 99 Approved: desktop-request%plaid@sun.com From: ubc-vision!calgary!vuwcomp!alex@seismo.CSS.GOV (Alex Heatley) Date: 13 May 87 23:16:03 GMT Organization: Comp Sci, Victoria Univ, Wellington, New Zealand Here in New Zealand I produce a quarterly fanzine that averages around 100 copies at around 20 pages per issue. I won't bother giving costs because of problems with exchange rates, however a rough calculation shows that by my standards you are being ripped off. The print shops in the city I live in generally are either all offset or xerox/offset. The offset places are always a lot more expensive to use than the xerox/offset places as their cilents typically are sucked in by the offset is better mentality. The particular print shop that I get my stuff done through will do either xerox or offset depending on the size of the print run. Above 200 copies they prefer to do offset. I'll cover my experinces with Xerox first. 1) doing it yourself is a real pain, to get good results you have to keep your copier *clean* e.g you have to vacuum the thing after every run. Typically print shops have constant maintenace on their copiers to make sure they can get good results all the time. Can you afford to throw out a drum because a paper jam put a scratch on it? Generally there are much higher overheads than you might think involved in owning a copier. As for buying one, just walk into your local Rank Xerox office and give them lots of money (or Cannon or ...) Good xerox is almost as good as offset with the exception of doing photographs (which costs lots!) and you can run up to 120gm card through a copier without any problems (the print shop I use does it all the time). 2) Offset. Offset is only worthwhile if you have to have photos in your document. Usually the cost per page is around the same as the cost for xerox (sometimes even a little cheaper). What costs is making up the plates (plastic for cheap copy shops and newspapers, metal for books) from your masters, and creating the bromides from your photos. That is a high initial cost and it depends on your print run as to whether you are justified. For example consider that plates cost $2 to make per page, that xeroxing costs $0.08 per page (both sides) and that printing is roughly the same price. 200 copies @ 70 pages offset = 70 x $2 + 200 * 70 / 2 * $0.08 = $700 200 copies @ 70 pages xerox = 200 * 70 / 2 * $0.08 = $560 It's the plate cost that gets you everytime. The other problem with offset is that while the costs are about the same *per page* once the plates have been done. Typically there is a much higher profit margin. This is because most print shops that do offset do it for companies that are using offset as a sort of status thing. They actually prefer to pay a bit more for the ability to say that their documents are offset. Back to the print shop I use, they'll do both xerox and offset. They'll charge you around the same price for collation and heavy card cover for both processes and the only real difference is the extra cost for plates in the offset process. If you can't find a shop in your area that's prepared to do both. Start one up, you'll make a mint. The key advantage is that they have to worry about meeting your standards. and they have all the headaches of daily maintence and so on. My feeling is that you should shop around the print shops in your area and find the one with the best prices. You may have to stick with xerox. But don't buy a copier yourself not unless you want a lot of grief. On the offset side, a person I knew brought a offset printer and plate maker for around $NZ 1500 (about $US 750). He did really well until he discovered that he had to spend an hour cleaning the printer after each job. That you have to hold your tongue just right to make plates and that people don't like poor results even if you are chaging them cost. But it's a thought, check up on how much a offset printer will cost you. It may well be a lot cheaper than the kind of xerox you're thinking of sinking your bucks into (and a damned sight more reliable). Hope this has been of help. Regards -- Alex Heatley : CSC, Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand. uucp : alberta!calgary!vuwcomp!alex ACSnet : alex@vuwcomp.nz ---------------------------------------- Submissions to: desktop%plaid@sun.com -OR- sun!plaid!desktop Administrivia to: desktop-request%plaid@sun.com -OR- sun!plaid@desktop-request Paths: {ihnp4,decwrl,hplabs,seismo,ucbvax}!sun Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM [I don't read flames] There is no statute of limitations on stupidity