Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!maximo.UUCP!mo From: mo@maximo.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.windows.news Subject: NeWS and X Message-ID: <8705151216.AA00774@maximo.uucp> Date: Sat, 16-May-87 04:05:34 EDT Article-I.D.: maximo.8705151216.AA00774 Posted: Sat May 16 04:05:34 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 17-May-87 07:45:39 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 74 From: Subject: NeWS and X Date: Fri, 15 May 87 08:16:27 -0400 X is fast???? Give me a break. I just saw News and X running side by side, News on a 160 and X on a 260. News was just as fast if not faster. In particular, try to do the rubber-band-line tracking trick with X. Putting the interaction smarts next to the display has much to say for it - mostly all correct. This has been proven time and again in other situations. Why is it some people insist on reinventing square wheels?? MOREOVER - the Sun mouse already has 2 too many buttons,(*) but can X do anything with just the mouse? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! You gotta drive the damn thing with BOTH HANDS!! One playing the mouse, and the other playin chords on the damn control-shift-meta-cokebottle keys!! Jeeeeeezzzz!! What a complete crock of flaming feces!! I have never seen anything as user fiendly as that. It simply sucks molten lava. Why is it that anyone who thinks they understand TECO and/or EMACS can build a user interface??? I got big news for them. If X becomes the defacto window standard for window systems you can completely kiss-off the real commercial marketplace. It completely fulfills everyone's worst fears and nightmares about UNIX. The simple fact is that designing REALLY GOOD user interfaces is astonishingly hard, probably as hard as designing fonts, and simply being able to hack your favorite programming language is neither necessary nor sufficient. Anyone anywhere attempting to write "window-based software" who doesn't spend a long time studying the Apple Macintosh User Interface Guidelines before even thinking about their design is simply wasting their time. I am not claiming the Mac interface is perfect, but before you make any claims about knowing anything about what is going on with user interfaces, you better well deeply understand all the issues, tradeoffs, and decisions that when into formulating those guidelines, otherwise you are fooling yourself. I have never yet seen any really window-based software on any UNIX window system, possibly excepting the BLIT, but even then, only barely. I have seen lots of glass-ttys with options and widgets that make TECO and EMACS look like smooth-surfaced spheres. Only when the UNIX folks realize that, in fact, they really don't know crap about what windows are good for and will take a look at a system with tons of extremely consistant, truly window-based software will we ever see UNIX window systems that are worthy of the name. I guess we have to wait for A/UX on the MacII. Flamin' away, as usual, -Mike O'Dell (*) O'Dell's observation on mouse design - An N button mouse has N-1 too many buttons. PS - Thought for the day: "X does for UNIX what Berkeley did for ls(1)."