Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!osu-eddie!paul From: paul@osu-eddie.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.windows.news Subject: Re: NeWS and X Message-ID: <3578@osu-eddie.UUCP> Date: Thu, 21-May-87 14:09:21 EDT Article-I.D.: osu-eddi.3578 Posted: Thu May 21 14:09:21 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 23-May-87 00:52:23 EDT References: <8705151216.AA00774@maximo.uucp> Sender: news@osu-eddie.UUCP Reply-To: paul@osu-eddie.UUCP (Paul Placeway) Distribution: world Organization: The Ohio State University, CIS Dept. Lines: 104 In article <8705151216.AA00774@maximo.uucp> mo@maximo.UUCP writes: >From: >Subject: NeWS and X >Date: Fri, 15 May 87 08:16:27 -0400 > >MOREOVER - the Sun mouse already has 2 too many buttons,(*) >but can X do anything with just the mouse? See below... >NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! You gotta drive the damn thing with >BOTH HANDS!! One playing the mouse, and the other >playin chords on the damn control-shift-meta-cokebottle >keys!! Jeeeeeezzzz!! What a complete crock of flaming >feces!! I have never seen anything as user fiendly >as that. It simply sucks molten lava. Actually, this is not true. I have re-configured my X setup for just-plain-left button (in root) to give me menus. On the other hand, I would **LIKE** to have my window system be able to tell the difference between a window title bar, the window, an icon, etc. A beginning user, however, dosn't know this. 8-( Also, I believe (and have good reason) that the window system should impose a set of standard window types that a programmer can get around only with a LOT of work. The idea being that the standard window types are just that: STANDARD and UNIFORM. Also no one, not even Richard Stallman, should write things with non-standard windows just because they don't like the way the standard ones work. If this person isn't God, they won't know all of the reasons why that standard window was set up that way!!! If a programmer can change the STANDARD for her environment, however... 8-) >Why is it that anyone who thinks they understand >TECO and/or EMACS can build a user interface??? They don't!!! Look at GnuEmacs. I use it, but only because (1) it is far better than vi, and (2) I learned it before I knew anything about writing my own. >The simple fact is that designing REALLY GOOD >user interfaces is astonishingly hard, probably >as hard as designing fonts, and simply being >able to hack your favorite programming language >is neither necessary nor sufficient. Anyone >anywhere attempting to write "window-based >software" who doesn't spend a long time >studying the Apple Macintosh User Interface >Guidelines before even thinking about their >design is simply wasting their time. >I am not claiming the Mac interface is perfect, >but before you make any claims about knowing >anything about what is going on with user >interfaces, you better well deeply understand >all the issues, tradeoffs, and decisions that >when into formulating those guidelines, otherwise >you are fooling yourself. YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES !!!! In some cases, before a PROGRAMMER writes a user-interface, they should talk to a PSYCHOLOGIST about learning, ease of use, contexts, etc. Look at _Fundamentals_of_Human-Computer_Interaction, ed. Andrew Monk Academic Press 1985, ISBN 0-12-504580-8 (hardcover), 0-12-504582-4 (pbk.) >I have never yet seen any really window-based software >on any UNIX window system, possibly excepting the BLIT, >but even then, only barely. Look at Xtrek, SDI, and other games. It's funny how the games lead other programs for nice (or at least good attempts at) user interfaces. 8-( > Flamin' away, as usual, > -Mike O'Dell And in turn... -- Paul Placeway Department of Computer and Information Science SNail: The Ohio State University 2036 Neil Ave. Columbus OH USA 43210-1277 ARPA: paul@ohio-state.{arpa,csnet} UUCP: ...!cb{osgd,att}!osu-eddie!paul >(*) O'Dell's observation on mouse design - > An N button mouse has N-1 too many buttons. Placeway's observation (based on my experience, and other peoples' experience, including psychological experiments): The correct number of buttons for a mouse is a small finite number, GREATER THAN ONE, but less than four. This is because an _exper- ienced_ user wants to have more control then just a single click (ie. Apples (1) click, (2) double-click, (3) shift-click, etc. which corrispond to (1) Left, (2) Middle, and (3) Right buttons), but not so many that she has to use one finger for more than one button. Since humans generally have 5 fingers, 3 is a practical limit. -=- -- Paul Placeway Department of Computer and Information Science SNail: The Ohio State University 2036 Neil Ave. Columbus OH USA 43210-1277 ARPA: paul@ohio-state.{arpa,csnet} UUCP: ...!cb{osgd,att}!osu-eddie!paul