Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!utgpu!gbs
From: gbs@utgpu.UUCP
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: can.franglais
Message-ID: <1987Jun24.013852.13984@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu>
Date: Wed, 24-Jun-87 01:38:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: gpu.1987Jun24.013852.13984
Posted: Wed Jun 24 01:38:52 1987
Date-Received: Thu, 25-Jun-87 04:57:13 EDT
Distribution: can
Organization: University of Toronto Computing Services
Lines: 54
Keywords: Hopeless in both official languages
Checksum: 31935


Several comments...

It is much easier to understand a language than to speak it, recognition
is faster than recall and you don't need to get the grammer right.
In Montreal, second largest French speaking population in the world, and
home to most of Quebec's anglos it is not uncommon to hear conversations
in both languages together - ie the Anglo speaks Anglais and the Francophone
speaks French - That way at least the message comes out ungarbled and
stands a decent chance of being understood. I have had many such exchanges
and find it a lot easier than to have one party scrambling for words and
the other trying to figure out what the poor butchered sentances really
meant. In print this is even easier since one need not respond in real time.
I propose that people post in the language of THEIR choice, and reserve
the effort of a good translation to times when your intended audience
speaks the other and you want to make sure you are clear. C'est simple.

As for having to put up with us poor anglos practicing French at the expense
of your having to read our mangled Franglais, Have we complained about your
English lately?

Translating jargon is probably a waste of time, it won't be used next year
anyhow, thats the nature of it... but seriously, for specialized words
whats wrong with borrowing them? There never will be a proper Latin root
for log in, and what about acronyms like modem. Most attempts are pretty
pathetic and don't get used. (Vive les Hambourgois [That's ground middle
class for you anglos])
Tell me, what language is the following phase in?
"Une pizza all-dressed pi deux Coke"
Beats me, but it will buy lunch in east end AND west end Montreal.
There is a lot of French in English and vice versa all ready, thats what
differentiates live languages from dead ones - dynamic alteration and
growth.  Just because the "Academie Francais" will take to the year 3000
to even consider it is no reason to reject it.

As for trying to add in accents.. can you do without? In Hebrew, where all
vowels (well, almost) are sprinkled above and below the words, even in print
they leave them out and read the word correctly from context. The Hebrew
vowels make a bigger difference to the word than the French accents (which,
after all, get left off of capital letters already)

Bon Fete to those in Que.
and have une bon weekend all: just keep in mind that une chein chaud will
bite back, but an 'ot dog can be eaten in either official language.



C'est fun - no ?
-- 
Gideon Sheps   (or Cheops, as my Egyptian relatives spell it)
I am not a number ...                             ...I am a free variable !
gbs@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu                                          ///
gbs@utorgpu.bitnet/EARN/NetNorth                              \\\///
disclaimer: My Amiga has been known to postnews without asking \\\/