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From: hadeishi@husc4.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Help requested in choosing a pc to purchase
Message-ID: <2240@husc6.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 8-Jun-87 13:39:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: husc6.2240
Posted: Mon Jun  8 13:39:29 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 10-Jun-87 05:13:36 EDT
References: <1711@ihwpt.ATT.COM> <955@killer.UUCP>
Sender: news@husc6.UUCP
Reply-To: hadeishi@husc4.UUCP (mitsuharu hadeishi)
Organization: Harvard Univ. Science Center
Lines: 137
Xref: utgpu comp.sys.amiga:5164 comp.sys.atari.st:3642
Summary: Amiga information

In article <955@killer.UUCP> elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green) writes:
>in article <1711@ihwpt.ATT.COM>, bad@ihwpt.ATT.COM (bill dwyer) says:
>> The pc we buy will be the center of a small startup company which the three of 
>> us are starting.  We would like to get all of the typical business type functions
>> of a pc such as spreadsheets, database management, inventory control, word
>> processing, etc. 
>Jack Tramiel has been saying "Real Soon Now" for quite some time about IBM
>compatibility for the ST line.  So has Commodore . . .

	You'll probably want an IBM for spreadsheets, etc.  You might
consider getting a dedicated IBM clone for those functions and separating
the CAD stuff on another machine (Amiga or AT).  However, the A2000
IBM compatibility certainly exists; the card is real, it works, it's
been demoed, it is as fast as a PC, it runs color graphics, and it
multitasks with Amiga tasks.  The PC AT card is in design and a prototype
was shown at a show (though not demoed as far as I know).  And of course
you can get IBM cards for the A2000 such as multifunction boards,
hard disk cards, instrument control and data acquisition boards, and
so forth.  There is the capability for communications between the
IBM and Amiga side, and file transfer will be available.  Even
coprocessor support is possible; the Amiga, for example, can use the
IBM's 8087 for floating point acceleration.  The A2000 isn't in
the US yet pending FCC modifications (arrgh) but it has been sold in
Europe.

>> We also will be using the pc as a test center for signal processing products.  So
>> we would like to be able to interface an outside product to the pc, and then use 
>> the pc to analyze and/or design the products.
> I think you may be biting off more than you can chew here. There is very
>little process control software for any consumer microcomputer, so you'd
>probably need to write your own. There is a little hardware out there for the
>IBM bus that I've seen in electronics mags that might be useful, but nobody
>has done anything equivalent for the ST or Amiga.

	Process control software should be easy to write given a good
C compiler on the Amiga.  The Amiga also has the advantage of a multitasking
environment which is easy to utilize and program for and may have
some use for signal processing, data acquisition and so forth.  For example,
it is easy to write an interrupt handler for the Amiga and have it
communicate with the host task; the code can all be done in C with
standard system calls.

>>.  The main use of the graphics will be for CAD design
>> work,
>  The Amiga will do this. Probably the ST will, although I don't know a
>package off-hand. So will the IBM PC with EGA or better graphics card.  

	Specifically, PCLO for the Amiga, a PC design CAD package
(rather expensive, but apparently quite capable.)

>>  So having a nice statistical package is another
>> desirable feature.
> I know of no such package for either the ST or Amiga. There's several for the
>IBM PC and clones, though. But the interface probably is reminiscent of
>punched-card days :-). 

	Statistical packages written in F77 and VAX Fortran, etc. abound,
and the Amiga has an EXCELLENT F77 (with F8? extensions) compiler which
is fast, bug-free, and produces fast, high-quality code.  The compiler
is available from AbSoft.  Any stat package written in F77 or a
more advanced dialect (like VAX Fortran) will compile and run with
no problem on an Amiga; also AbSoft supports the 68020 and 68881 for
even faster results (far surpassing the VAX for data processing
speed.)  A 68020/68881 board exists now for the A2000; C-A is planning
one with an MMU (far future) that may run UNIX (far future).
Standard stat libraries written in F77 can be linked with your own
user interface or your own signal processing output.

>>  It would be very nice to be able to run background jobs
>> while doing tasks such as file keeping or word processing.
>   Only one in the bunch that'll do it stock out of the box is the Amiga.
>[ talks about Microport for IBM and refers to multitasking shell for ST ]

	This is not an article about the ST, but there is a multitasking
shell for the ST (which doesn't run all ST software, but it does run
that software which conforms to the shell's rules).  If you got an A2000
with a Bridge card, you could run word processing on the IBM side
(Word Perfect) and run statistics on the Amiga side, or run word processing
on the Amiga side (Word Perfect) and run statistics on the IBM side.
Depends on where you want to spend your money.  I'd spend it on
statistics on the Amiga side if you had a 68020 card (faster) or
on the IBM side if you had an 8087 (faster, more off-the-shelf
stat software (with horrible user interfaces)).

>>  We tend to lean toward
>> these new pcs because we would like the pc to be easily expandable so that it may 
>> be useful for years to come.  Upward compatibility with a 68020 board is very 
>> nice, as may be the easy compatibility with IBM products.  Another hardware item
>> we will want is a good modem.  Additional software/hardware systems we may want
>> are speech and audio signal processing systems.
>Your main choice is probably between the IBM AT with a hefty hard drive and
>possibly Microport Unix if your applications are well-behaved and will run as
>the single MS-DOS process provided under Microport, or the (currently Real
>Soon Now) Amiga A-2000. If you chose the A-2000, many of your tasks would need
>to run on the IBM side of the machine, unless you were into serious hardware
>and software hacking (which I guess you're not, since you want to do a job,
>not play with the computer all day).

	The current IBM line will become obsolete in time, replaced
by the PC/2 line (slowly).  If you want expandability, you either have
to pay through the nose for a high-end PC/2 system (with no software yet
to take advantage of all the hardware) or get an Amiga 2000 which has
some hardware NOW, and lots more to come (mostly from manufacturers
like Perry Kivolowitz and the wizards at ASDG and others).  68020/68881
is available NOW for the Amiga line.  If you want immediate
functionality an IBM AT might do it for you, but recall that ATs are
great as far as existing software/hardware, but you'll probably have
to rely on existing software/hardware.  The Amiga would require more
work initially, but you would probably get a system that better
suited your needs in the long run, with the IBM compatibility (even
AT compatibility) still available.  Software development is, basically,
much easier on the Amiga, and you'll find writing software to
handle real-time stuff is also much easier and less problematic
than on an AT (even with Unix, which is notorious for having a
bad scheme for handling interrupts and signals, not to mention
intertask communications.)  With the A2000 such possibilities
as running Microport Unix or 286 OS/2 on the AT bridge card
with the 68020/68881 on the Amiga side doing CAD/CAM or number
crunching are possible; now THAT's expansion capability.  Basically,
the Amiga OS is better suited to custom applications and much
better suited for future expansion than either Messy DOS or Unix.
For example, as was noted on the net a couple days ago, the Amiga
can be networked over Ethernet with other NFS (Network File Server)
machines and an NFS server (i.e., networked with Suns, etc.) with
no trouble at all;  I mean, after reading about all of the nightmares
of networking in the IBM clone magazines, that's a feat in itself.
Apparently this is done easily by adding a couple modules to the Amiga
OS; adding NFS to Unix, however, is possible, but as was commented,
"Sun says NFS is a drop-in.  That may be true, but it makes a big splash."
My recommendation would be to go with the A2000.  It basically has
the flexibility, functionality, and expandability you need, and it
certainly fits you product description better than any other
machine out there, for less money than any other machine out there.
There aren't too many customers out there who would benefit from an
Amiga more.

				-Mitsu