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From: mwm@eris.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: My turn to flame at C/A...
Message-ID: <3935@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 12-Jun-87 02:17:20 EDT
Article-I.D.: jade.3935
Posted: Fri Jun 12 02:17:20 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 13-Jun-87 11:31:45 EDT
References: <8706110829.AA11035@violet.berkeley.edu> <2003@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer)
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica
Lines: 112

In article <2003@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes:
<In article <8706110829.AA11035@violet.berkeley.edu> mwm@VIOLET.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike  Meyer, My watch has windows) writes:
<>Since Scott Turner has been quiet lately, I'll take try and fill his
<>flames-behind-my-postings shoes :-).
<
<I'm sorry.  you just don't seem to have the same touch.

Sigh. Must be out of practice. Maybe it's time to go back to
talk.religion. Prase Bob! [Hey! Anyone got Bob in IFF?]

<What paperwork ?  As announced many times, you can get the
<1.2 Autodocs on a disk from us by sending $20.00 for the
<1.2 Native Developer Update (a 4 disk set) which contains the header files,
<the new amiga.lib, the autodocs, and the readme files for V1.2.

Announced? Where? I've never seen it before. In fact, I had a
newly-registered developer asking me what the 1.2 Native Developers
Update was in a reply to my posting. Someone else told me in another
reply, so I forwarded it.

<Just ask for the 1.2 Native Developer Update, and
<send a check for $20 made out to Commodore Business Machines to

Check? What about plastic? It's bad enough to have to wait for docs
when I find I out where to get them. But having to play snail-mail
games both way is ridiculus. And why can't I get this stuff from my
dealer? I got the original docs from them.

And if your $20 is just covering cost, what's the problem with giving
them to Fred? He tends to supply programmers tools, so this fits his
bill. And it could save your people time they could use doing other
things. Just put copyright notices all over it and restrictions on
redistribution.

<Sounds like we shouldn't have mentioned the new programmer functions
<in the first place. :-)

That's not funny. That's the f*cking truth. I bought an Amiga, and it
didn't have *any* documentation for anything but the workbench and PM
type stuff. I had to buy the hackers docs over and above that. No
problem, I knew it before hand. That's better than the half-*ssed job
that was done on the enhancer kit.

<get the Native Developer Upgrade.  But we didn't, so since then
<we've announced it a lot (even here).

So howcum I didn't see any of it until I bitched about it?

<I don't think our current method ($20, no paperwork) is unreasonable.

The cost isn't unreasonable. The method sucks. Two snail-mail delays,
assuming you're lucky enough to know how you get them? Was that
designed by the Commodore Amiga advertising team?

<Aw, come on.  We only charged $15.00 for the upgrade.

For which you did a good thing. But you *didn't* deliver what was
promised - an upgrade with docs. If the enhancer kit hadn't had any
docs in it, and the dealer had the "Programmers Documentation Upgrade"
at another $15, that would have been a *major* improvement.

While I'm on the topic, why the feep wasn't the Doc upgrade done as
replacement sheets for what was already there. Even IBM can get that
right, forxsakes. Calling that first doc "Wedgies" just about
describes this situation. And you know where *I* think they ought to
be wedged; just so it's remembered WHY docs are delivered in oversized
three-ring binders.

<Most users might
<not need the additional information; The docs are available, at
<a small cost.

And once again, it *wasn't* announced that you'd need that extra
information when you bought the Enhancer kit, even though the Enhancer
kit referenced it. And having to put a project on hold for two weeks
while you wait for the docs is the kind of thing that makes me hate
other vendors who shall remain nameless.

<(BTW, usenet is the boonies ???)

No, but I've got friends that bought Amigas (in part because I did)
who have a 40-mile drive (one way) to a dealer who carries Amiga
software. It's even farther to a dealer who has hardware. Their Usenet
access is a 3b2 made from second-hand parts sitting on a friends desk,
with 80 Meg of disk. I don't think he bothers with comp.sys.amiga - to
damn big.

And when they had a reliable Usenet site that carried everything,
there was still a 5-day delay to a backbone site.

In summary (i.e., I want to say it *again* :-), there are users out
there who are programmers, who *don't* have access to any major nets
(CI$ or the internet mail world). I wouldn't be surprised if they
didn't know what the AutoDocs were, much less how to get them.  You
sold an OS upgrade that looked like it had documentation, but was
incomplete. How to get the missing stuff isn't mentioned in the
upgrade, and when you find out how, you're still up the creek without
a paddle for a couple of weeks.

Sc*w it. How much trouble would I get into if *I* posted the complete
Autodocs? I'm not a developer, haven't signed any non-disclosure
agreements (I *won't* sign those things), etc. Since I'm not making
any money, I think damages to me are limited to something small.
Anyone out there willing to contribute to a "AutoDocAid" fund to pay
court costs and damages?

	<mike
--
How many times do you have to fall			Mike Meyer
While people stand there gawking?			mwm@berkeley.edu
How many times do you have to fall			ucbvax!mwm
Before you end up walking?				mwm@ucbjade.BITNET