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From: srt@CS.UCLA.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Aegis Vs. Unix
Message-ID: <8706090628.AA29741@zeus.CS.UCLA.EDU>
Date: Tue, 9-Jun-87 02:28:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: zeus.8706090628.AA29741
Posted: Tue Jun  9 02:28:17 1987
Date-Received: Thu, 11-Jun-87 06:35:21 EDT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Distribution: world
Organization: The ARPA Internet
Lines: 49

Robert Reed writes:

   The point of all this is that despite my willingness to hack in order to
   develop sufficient tools in a given environment, I come very quickly to
   conclusions about the effectiveness of those tools in providing a
   reasonable environment.  Some tools rarely get in my way (e.g.  Gosling
   Emacs).  Some tools constantly get in my way (e.g.  AEGIS, DM, debug,
   etc.)...

   I can do things with an Emacs package driving the UNIX dbx debugger that
   would make users of debug drool with envy...

It seems to me that many of the people who are dissatisfied with the Apollos
are people who come from a one-window, command-line oriented operating
system like Unix.  In that kind of environment, Emacs running sub-processes
is a dream come true, because it gives you a kind of multi-window
functionality.  That comes for free on the Apollos - you can liberate
yourself from this kind of one-window thinking.

You can't simply look at the Aegis command-line interpreter independent of
the environment it operates in.  Sure, if you want to fire up your Apollo
with one window and treat it like an extremely expensive workstation, you
are going to be dissatisfied with the environment.  That's the wrong way to
use it.  You don't need to run your editor and your debugger in the same
window.  Run them in different windows and move between them however and
whenever you want.  Share information, cut and paste, etc.

Much of the functionality of the C-shell isn't needed on the Apollos.  I
rarely use the history functions (!!, etc.) on the Apollos because "Again"
and C&P are so much handier, and I'm sure there are other examples.

This argument has degenerated from a discussion of the command-line
interpreters on the Apollo to a comparison of Aegis commands to other
operating systems on other machines.  I personally don't feel there is much
to be gained from this discussion, since these things tend to be a matter
of religion and personal biases.

   One very quickly runs out of gas strictly within the DM.  Its editing
   facilities are a joke.  I'm sure the DM editor satisfies novice text
   entry...

I don't think the DM editor is a joke, though it obviously is not nearly as
flexible as a powerful Emacs.  Many of the most common editor functions are
supplied in the DM, and the most important customizations can be handled
(key binding, macros).  It is annoying not to be able to write
paren-balancing or "electric-C" mode, but I think Apollo made the right
choice in providing a simple, extensible and blindingly fast text editor
rather than trying to implement some kind of mega-editor in an attempt to
please everyone.