Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!uwvax!oddjob!gargoyle!ihnp4!homxb!mtuxo!mtune!codas!ge-dab!ge-rtp!edison!toylnd!dca
From: dca@toylnd.UUCP (David C. Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: The Unix-pc!
Message-ID: <138@toylnd.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 21-Jun-87 13:47:23 EDT
Article-I.D.: toylnd.138
Posted: Sun Jun 21 13:47:23 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 1-Jul-87 02:49:37 EDT
References: <3980@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <687@nu3b2.UUCP>
Distribution: na
Organization: Dave & Anne in Charlottesville, VA
Lines: 109
Summary: 3b1 or 3b2

In article <687@nu3b2.UUCP>, rwhite@nu3b2.UUCP (Robert C. White Jr.) writes:
> > How fast is it?  How fast can it run with Unix slowing it up?  
> 	Speed is moderate, but I HATE the STUPID OFFICE WINDOW
> 	enviroment.  I slows things down and screws them up.
I think the user agent environment is really nice.  It makes administrative
tasks easy, you can pop a new window real easy just by clicking the
'w' gadget.  It is a necessity, however, to go in an modify the 
> > Is there a compatibility card that allows running MSDOS?  
> 	yes, "DOS-73" card. 640k herc/monichrome graphics/ms-mouse
> 	effective behavior.  modem is com1, diskette is "A" and
> 	modt functions similarly mapped.  Print is spooled.
> > I heard the Modem is included?  Is it Hayes compatible?
> 	Not hayes compatable [though the dos-73 does some compatibility
> 	buisness [don't remember the details.]
> > 2) Software: Is the software to run the modem included?
> 	Yes, but it can be a pain.
> > Is the famouns SimulTask included?
> 	not per say, but the dos-73 driver does window the dos partition.
> > In the$700  of software that is deemed essential, is there a version of
'/usr/lib/ua/Office' file to make the shell pop with a full screen
borderless window (A bordered unix window is a pain in the a**).
Once you do that you don't even notice the UA is around unless you
want to use it.
> > Is the machine powerfull enough to carry the weigth of Unix?  
> 	yes, but some versions of the os trash their swap space if
> 	you don't run shutdown every couple of days.
Never had this happen with versions 3.0 or 3.5, 2.0 was junk.
> > What is the speed of the hard- disk?  
The 20M miniscribe is pretty noisy.
> > Are the 3B1 models different that the very handsome 7300 
> 	Yes, faster clock and extra electronics improve the machine
> 	beyond human belief.  Real difference [and bigger case] but
> 	I don't know the details.
> > (i.e. are they the same box or do they consists of bigger clanky boxes)?  
> 	slightly larger box in general [all demensions] and the monitor
> 	sits up on an extra inch or so of pedistal [added to contain some
> 	extra electronics.
Horsepucky!,  the differences are a full height (and faster) disk drive.
A larger power supply to support said disk drive and a block underneath
the monitor to put the full height drive in.  I think some 3b1s have
more memory on the motherboard as well.  THAT IS IT.  No bigger case in
general, no faster processor, no fancy electronics.
> > the vi editor included, and what about  f77  and troff??  
> 	no. no. and no.
        ^ Wrongo The enhanced editor set includes vi.
> > Does it take an eternity to boot it up, and do you have to leave it 
> > on all the time, or can you just shut it off every now and then like 
> > the DOS boxes??
> 	Shutting it down is just about manditory on a periodioc basis
> 	for system V rel 3 or eirler <not realy those versions and
> 	behaviors.  The OS is a bastard of SVR1.x and Sun (or something)
> 	courne shell and all>
Don't have any idea what you are talking about I have known people that
leave theirs on all the time with no problems.
> > 3) Generalities:  Is this model going to be discontinued?  
> 	7300, I think yes <maybe>, 3B1 definatly not.
As the 3b1 and the 7300 are virtually the same machine I suspect they
are both going to be discontinued and AT&T will probably stick to
merchandising the 3b2 boxes based on their proprietary processor.
> 
> I would maby buy the 3B1, but the 7300's I have been exposed to tent to
> disapoint me.  They have a bastard child for UNIX.  It does not function
> consistantly and is suspended between SVR3 and System 7.  All you get is
> the user environment and ed.  No cc, vi, nroff, make, or electronic mail,
> though uucp is in place their is no mailx or mail window, included in the
> standard software release.  all these things are available for extra, 
> everything mentioned above comes in the development set.
> 
> We don't have 3.5 yet, but terminal sessions, and some other functions
> lock up from time to time.  Usually because of swap space corruption.
> 
> I say buy at you own risk.
> 
> Robert.
> 
I have never had a terminal session lock up.  The phone manager in
3.0 was less than perfect in that it would stop being able to dial
out for some funky reason but I never had it lock up. The 3.5 phone
manager is much more reliable but also much slower (i.e. the 3.5
phone manager is a real dog).

I think the author of this response is confusing the 3b2 line with the
3b1 line.  They are not the same.  The 3b1 is simply a slight
hardware expansion of the 7300 incorporating a bigger disk, larger
power supply and (possible) more memory on the motherboard.  Software
wise there is NO DIFFERENCE between the two machines.  The 3b2 is
based on the Western Digital chip set and using COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
hardware, software, etc.  Interestingly enough my girlfriend in working
on her Phd. in CS has had opportunity to use a 3b5 and likes the 7300
much better.

True, the Western Digital processors have a more 'stock' unix but most
of the stuff I take off the net meant for SYSV compiles and runs with little
or no modification so I can't complain.  I've never used ANY unix that
I would call 'consistent', if you mean by 'consistent' conforming to
a particular AT&T release then I will grant the point otherwise I
have no idea what you are talking about.  Certainly it has been made
quite clear that it isn't a reasonable system without purchasing the
'Unix utilities' but who cares? the solution is simple BUY THE UNIX
UTILITIES.

It certainly is a buy at your own risk proposition.  I suspect that AT&T
will soon drop the machine from the line.  I also suspect that 3.5 will
probably be that last version of the software available for the machine.
The degree of compatability it has now with respect to Sys V rel 2 is
probably as good as it is going to get.  If you dream of SYS V rel 3
compatability you should probably look elsewhere.

David Albrecht