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From: jmc@ptsfa.UUCP (Jerry Carlin)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: UNIX - the "don't worry about it" operating system?
Message-ID: <3128@ptsfa.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 1-Jul-87 13:43:22 EDT
Article-I.D.: ptsfa.3128
Posted: Wed Jul  1 13:43:22 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 3-Jul-87 00:51:19 EDT
References: <17108@glacier.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: jmc@ptsfa.UUCP (Jerry Carlin)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Lines: 60
Keywords: locking safety integrity security

In article <17108@glacier.STANFORD.EDU> jbn@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (John B. Nagle) writes:
>
>     It strikes me that problems that were solved with immense effort in
>other operating systems are generally ignored in UNIX, with amazingly
>little effect.  Consider the recent discussion on backing up "live" file
>systems...
>
>Recognize that solutions are known for all these problems and there
>have been operating systems in which they were adequately addressed.
>UNIX addresses all of these problems inadequately.

Here we go again. UNIX addresses these problems well. All OS's
depend on people to implement the solutions.

The real point of much of the discussion is actually how ROBUST UNIX
is and how many things the OS will let you do without catastropic results.

Also, the administration practices on a university/research computer
is VERY different than those on a business computer where very valuable
corporate data is kept. On those machines a lot more care is taken.

To answer some of the specific points:

>File system integrity:
	Again, the solution depends on people (and $$) DBMS's have 
	transaction logging, UNIX (at least V.3) has an ordered write.
	You need to spend money for adequate backup hardware and hire
	operators to do dumps off-hours or buy a computer with mirrored
	disks (like the new Tandem UNIX box).

>Spoolers:
	Any program including the spooler can and does die. The real
	question is how often and how much trouble to restart.

>Locking: 
	see lockf(3) etc. This is really a dead issue for a stand
	alone system and has been for quite a while. Locking across a 
	network and deciding what to do when one computer (with 
	ANY os) goes down is non-trivial.  'rfs' now addresses this 
	and 'nfs' is supposed to.

>Security: 
	security always depends on people to implement. Gould
	has a C-2 secure port. See the UNIX System Security book,
	Wood and Kochan, Hayden. There are scripts that enforce
	security considerations in the book.

>System administration:
	I've worked with many OS's. If you think UNIX is complicated 
	try MVS; try writing OS JCL to do admin tasks. AT&T and other
	vendors have very nice system admin menu systems.

Many of us like UNIX because it is malleable. Its a little like a camera
that has an automatic mode and a manual mode that allows over exposure and
double exposure. You don't have to use the manual mode but its there when
you need it.

-- 
voice: (415) 823-2441	uucp: {ihnp4,lll-crg,ames,qantel,pyramid}!ptsfa!jmc
Where am I? In the village. Whose side are you on? That would be telling.