Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!mcnc!gatech!hubcap!ncrcae!ncr-sd!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplabsc!mayer
From: mayer@hplabsc.UUCP (Niels Mayer)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Okay, you X'ers, how the he...
Message-ID: <2059@hplabsc.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 19-Jun-87 17:02:13 EDT
Article-I.D.: hplabsc.2059
Posted: Fri Jun 19 17:02:13 1987
Date-Received: Mon, 22-Jun-87 04:27:04 EDT
References: <5840003@wdl1.UUCP> <78@decvax.UUCP> <254@cbstr1.att.com>
Reply-To: mayer@hplabsc.UUCP (Niels Mayer)
Distribution: world
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Palo Alto, CA
Lines: 49

In article <254@cbstr1.att.com> Karl.Kleinpaste@cbstr1.att.com writes:
>I keep picturing an X novice who's reasonably expert in Suns in
>general, including SunWindows, who sits down at his screen with his
>mouse in his right hand and his DrPepper in his left, only to find out
>that he has to keep putting the DrPepper down in order to metafy mouse
>hits.
>
>No, thanx; give me the naked mouse hits any day.
>
>Karl

This issue has already been hashed and rehashed on
comp.windows.news...  There's nothing in X that says you must use your
meta key to perform window manager operations. That's entirely up to
the window manager.  Nobody is forcing you to use uwm, its just that
uwm/menuwm/.... are readily available and work in the
least-common-denominator X-window environment: windows that do not
have active regions supporting window manager operations; windows that
require modified mouse clicks to separate the application mouse
actions from the window manager actions.

For example, imagine a high level application building toolkit built
on top of X, HP's Xray, DEC's Xtoolkit, etc. These
applications-building tools may define a window-style using
Macintosh-like (actually Xerox Star-like) active regions that allow
window manager operations to be performed. The application-building
kit would also contain a window manager that would know how to move,
resize, top, bottom, and iconify windows based on naked keyclicks in
the aforementioned active window regions. It would also perhaps let
the META key modify the mouse clicks to perform wm operations on
applications that use plain X.

So instead of making silly sweeping generalizations about X itself, we
should be examining the lack of a UI and window management standard
between X applications. I'm sure there are gaggles of programmers
looking at this problem right now.

It would be interesting to get a discussion going on the subject of UI
under X windows.

Is X easy to use??? No. Is unix easy to use?? Nope. Could we provide a
set of stadard initialization files (and programs) that will bring up
an X system as a programming environment rather than a bag-o-tools?
Certainly... but that will require both time and work.

Hmmmm.... looks like that compile finished.... time to get back to work.

-- Niels Mayer
   Hewlett-Packard Laboratories.