Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!topaz.rutgers.edu!brandx.rutgers.edu!webber From: webber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) Newsgroups: news.admin Subject: Response to Amos Shapir's Query by providing a bit of history Message-ID: <274@brandx.rutgers.edu> Date: Thu, 2-Jul-87 00:03:08 EDT Article-I.D.: brandx.274 Posted: Thu Jul 2 00:03:08 1987 Date-Received: Fri, 3-Jul-87 02:53:44 EDT References: <266@brandx.rutgers.edu> <8225@utzoo.UUCP> <272@brandx.rutgers.edu> <306@nsta.UUCP> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 87 Summary: history of the moderated sources problem from Webber's view point. In article <306@nsta.UUCP>, amos@nsta.UUCP (Amos Shapir) writes: > ... > What I did not understand from Webber's latest article is what he suggests > as a solution to the net traffic problems (he does not seem to be fond > of the 'alternate backbone' idea). Another thing: if he calls for > communication, why didn't he discuss his idea with the moderators and > bb admins first to find out *why* they manage the bb the way they do? A brief history: a few months ago, I saw an announcements of the new news groups names that indicated that both mod.sources and net.sources would be renamed comp.sources which would be moderated. I mentioned this to some of the local admins and they told me I must of have misread it. Turned out I had read it right. About two months ago, I was sitting at my terminal, reading news.stargate where people started talking about how it would only carry moderated stuff and how this was a GOOD THING. I disagreed. In detail. For about a month. After a while, the moderated sources groups fell on hard times. [They are now running reasonably, but I maintain that it is an inevitable part to the design that they will from time to time fall on hard times.] Other people were noticing this and expressed dissatisfaction. I came up with a ``brilliant idea''. Why not do things by the book. Create a mailing list and then when it grows big enough, convert it to a news group. So I posted announcements in the various news groups. Spaf noticed this and sent me a message saying that such mail should not route through his site and cc'd it to the backbone in case others felt similarly. (we are now about three weeks ago) Various messages started flowing, basically I took the opportunity of whenever someone sent me a message telling me not to do something to explain to them why they should let me do it but that since they won't I will be reasonable and not do it in a way that bothers them. This went on for a while, other things happened - like rumors that it was all for naught because the backbone had decided to allow unmoderated sources after all. Finally, I was put in a position where I couldn't move on with the mailing list without outright going against `net policy'. Given that something had to go I analyzed the situation again and came up with ``brilliant idea II'', -- i.e., propose posting to the moderated sources group in a manner that was clearly marked as such. This was then clothed in a parody of the backbone and the way they do things (which has not endeared them to me as you can imagine). More messages have been exchanged. Current status is that I am right now neither a net ombudsman (since weemba@berkeley volunteered to take it over) nor a mailing list coordinator. In the process of all of this, I have posted several messages on various news groups and to the backbone explaining how I think news should be handled so that they don't end up spending all their time having to address questions like ``is it a good thing for the net to have a group devoted to the discussion of blah''. In the process of all of this it has become quite apparent that there really is no underlying structure to how the net operates at all and that it is all very ad hoc. Unfortunately, the net has grown to a size where it needs things like quota systems, distributed archives, etc. I have detailed mechanisms for how quota systems would integrate into the current system both on news.stargate (where I was showing that the net could function well in the absense of stargate) and again to the backbone. The quota stuff is important because I am not a something-for-nothing person. I just think the resources can be better utilized. I kept back copies of all this, so if you are interested and missed it earlier, I can send you a copy directly. ------- BOB (webber@aramis.rutgers.edu ; rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!webber)