Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!ll-xn!mit-eddie!oberon!sdcrdcf!faigin From: faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) Newsgroups: soc.women,news.misc Subject: Re: }I'm still here. Message-ID: <4702@sdcrdcf.UUCP> Date: Tue, 23-Jun-87 14:06:24 EDT Article-I.D.: sdcrdcf.4702 Posted: Tue Jun 23 14:06:24 1987 Date-Received: Thu, 25-Jun-87 06:23:52 EDT References: <3995@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <492@cblpe.ATT.COM> Reply-To: faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Daniel P Faigin) Distribution: world Organization: Unisys - System Development Group, Santa Monica Lines: 148 Keywords: AbdulRahman, soc.women, credit card, Nazis, pronouns Xref: mnetor soc.women:4944 news.misc:620 Isn't it amazing how something can get out of control when people do not read the article they are replying to. For example: >In article <3995@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> era1987@violet.berkeley.edu () writes: >> >>I hope that someday soc.women can become a moderated group so that >>netiquette can be enforced and personal attacks not permitted. But I >>would not like to see a man or an anti-feminist woman host soc.women. Now, look closely at what Mark said: ... would not like to see a man or an anti-feminist woman host soc.women. Mark did not say: "I want a faminist to moderate." Mark suggests (and quite reasonably) that it does not make sense to have someone moderate soc.woman who has the capability to be "anti-feminist." I am sure that Mark would not object to a NEUTRAL person of either gender (afterall, names do not imply sexual orientation... right?) serving as moderator. >>I'd like Sherry, Pat, aMAZon, Ellen Eades, Cheryl, >>Valerie, or any other of the strong feminist women in soc.women to moderate >>the group From what I've read in soc.women, not ALL of these women are rabid feminists. See who offers to moderate it. >>and I hope that a woman who is more concerned with equal rights >>than with forcing women to conform to the traditonal oppressive role >>society has historically imposed on women, will volunteer to moderate >>soc.women What is wrong with having someone concerned with equal rights moderating. Note that Mark said "concerned".. not "strongly for". It is understandable that Mark does not want someone who wants "the traditional oppresive role" for women to moderate. What is needed is equality of presentation of viewpoints. >>so ad hominem attacks and postings not of concern to women >>could be refused This is the purpose of any moderator. >> and therefore would have to be posted to soc.men. I disagree with this. Maybe some of the postings shouldn't be posted at all. Then, in article <492@cblpe.ATT.COM>, apc@cblpe.ATT.COM (55212-Alan Curtis) replies: >I find it quite interesting that you, of all people, would be >so openly hypocritical! You are trying to force your ideas on all women! >What gives you the right to imply that only feminists are right? Don't you just love people who skim articles, pick up one word, and then flame. Read what you are replying to closely before you post. Mark didn't imply this. Mark felt that a neutral party without gender bias (or even with a slightly pro-women bias) would be the best to moderate. You read in the feminism, Mark didnt say it. >You go as far as to imply (I think) that only a feminist female can >determine postings that are 'not of concern to women'! And only a programmer can determine what is appropriate for comp.sources.misc. Or a handicapped person on the handicapped newsgroup. Or a lawyer for misc.legal. C'mon. It is, however, unlikely that a man could determine what is approprate for a women (I know, I'm married and still can't always figure out what my wife wants :-)). It is similarly true that a traditional-role-oriented female may not approve of the feminist postings. >Do you mean that soc.women should be changed so soc.feminist? I think there is already a mail.feminist. And Mark did not suggest changing the name of the group. >If your only motive for wishing that .women become moderated is to stop >ad hominem attacks, then why must the moderator be a feminist female? Read what Mark said: ... would not like to see a man or an anti-feminist woman host soc.women. Not Anti-Feminist != Feminist >I think any person would be just as capable of screening out personal attacks as >anyone else, so why a feminist?. Read what Mark said: ... would not like to see a man or an anti-feminist woman host soc.women. Not Anti-Feminist != Feminist > >You obviously want to do just what you claim certain people on (in?) >the WELL were doing: censoring! > This is the old argument against moderation. Moderation, in any for, can be viewed, if one wishes as censoring. The net, in its wisdom, has established a precident for moderating various groups to improve the S/N ratio. I have not seen any censorship suits. >Just rember that not everyone agress with you, nor should everyone agree, >but everyone should be able to speak! And Mark never said they can't. But people, please, be polite :-) >I do agree that the personal attacks gotta go (on BOTH sides!), Oh no, the demon censorship rears its ugly head again. :-) >but I do not see moderation (as in moderated group) as the solution. What is, then. Certainly not net.flame (although now that you mention it... nah, it'll never work). Personal control -- c'mon -- you know that won't work. Maybe we'll just have to hunt 'em down. [I know I left that gun on the rack somewhere... OK Twit, eat burning lead! Whoops, wrong twit. Meant to kill the AI program :-)] >As another footnote, why moderate the group, for the moderation system >does not work. In your opinion. I think it works quite well. > Name the group, and if my site has it active, I can >post to it. Then your site has its news control files screwed up, or you are running and old version of news. >Approved: USA is free! Cheater. Yes, there are some bugs in the moderation system. HONEST people don't exploit them :-). Daniel -- Work : UNiSYS/DS/System Development Group (formerly System Development Corp) 2525 Colorado MD 91-01;Santa Monica CA 90406;213/829-7511 x6393 Home : 8333 Columbus Avenue #17; Sepulveda CA 91343 Email: (uucp) faigin@sdcrdcf.UUCP (arpa) faigin%sdcrdcf.UUCP@CAM.Unisys.COM