Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!ubc-vision!van-bc!sl From: sl@van-bc.UUCP Newsgroups: can.general,news.misc,news.admin Subject: Re: uunet access from Canada Message-ID: <958@van-bc.UUCP> Date: Sat, 4-Jul-87 04:18:42 EDT Article-I.D.: van-bc.958 Posted: Sat Jul 4 04:18:42 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 4-Jul-87 19:35:23 EDT References: <954@van-bc.UUCP> <824@looking.UUCP> Reply-To: sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) Distribution: can Organization: Public Access Network, Vancouver, BC. Lines: 104 Xref: utgpu can.general:626 news.misc:558 news.admin:525 In article <824@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >In article <954@van-bc.UUCP> sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >You underestimate the capacity of the Canadian government for getting >in the way of people trying to do cross-border business. >I think it's still illegal, for example, to ship data from point A in >Canada to point B in canada via point C in the USA. Usenet has always It would be real fun to see them try and stop it :-). I can just see the mounties asking to see my log files. Sorry sir, I hope theres a copy on the backup tape. >been semi-illegal because of this. Why does a federal express pac cost >$40 from Canada. Why is a letter (no duty) cost $23? Why are airfares >much higher? Good point, it shouldn't! We can work on that one next week. > >>Lets face it folks. We have the potential here for getting access to UUNET >>at the exact same rate as users in the US have. We could be on an >>equal footing in terms of mail and news delivery. > >Datapac is actually quite cheap when used properly. People like Compuserve Datapac inside of Canda is still fairly expensive. For me to access Toronto is still $1.38 / KP using Datapac 3000. This will give me an effective transfer cost of about $5.52. This compares to $4 CDN for UUNET if we can get the same rate that is charged in the US. This assumes that I have also got X.25 hardware and software. And ignores the fact that the sign up fee for UUNET is about $40 CDN as compared to $90 for off net Datapac 3000 service. In Toronto the cost is only about $.22 / KP, but then why use Datapac when you can make a call for free. >and Genie could save their customers a fortune by getting a direct Datapac >connection. (They put lines for their own net in Toronto, they could connect >these lines to datapac and get a whole new slew of customers if they would >just think about it!) I don't think so. Datapac is semi reasonable for host-host using Datapac 3000 service. Datapac 3101 is a fair bit more (more than double for the most part). >One answer here is to put a UUNET relay in Canada, connected to datapac. Personally I'll take the increased connectivity of UUNET. Why introduce and extra delay. >Have the relay pay whatever charge is cheapest (9600 bps, tymnet etc.) That's the whole point. There is no current "cheapest" way. UUNET is $9/hr in offpeak (7:00PM to 6:00AM). Datapac/Tymnet is $23/MB of data. Long distance from Toronto is probably on the order of $10 Cdn from 12:00PM to 8:00AM. >to get all the stuff on demand from uunet, and then let people dial in >via datapac, or direct in the local calling region. (thus it probably makes >sense to put the Canadian uunet relay in T.O.) ^^^^^^ Unfortunately your right. Maybe I should move back home to Ontario ... >UUNET is an effort of U.S. user groups, why not have /usr/group/cdn or >whoever fund a node. In theory, the hardware and X.25 software can >be had from the US UUNET site. SMOP, perhaps. Actually /usr/group/cdn might be able to play a role in just getting us a better hookup to UUNET. The possibility exists to setup a separate billing account from Canada for Canadian customers. This would have the rate set by the Canadain side of Tymnet who may be more interested in trying to get our business. This would require some responsible party who would guarantee the payment, and invoice and collect the money. Actually I suspect you could get UUNET to actually issue the invoices. The billing is based on the uucico connect time on their machine (you can get better stats direct from Tymnet if you want to issue separate Tymnet user id's but that costs $6 / month per id). >other vaxen already have X.25 links to datapac. Hard links to datapac are >not that expensive at low baud rates. Still $82 for off net 1200 bps, and $90 for off net 2400 bps. Not to mention X.25 hardware and software. Anyway I am not convinced that we could offer a cheaper service from a site in Canada. Remember that the communications costs are not the only cost. While UUNET charges $3/hr US, they have budgeted into this approxiametely $1 US to cover the capital costs of the equipment they are purchasing, and the operating costs. Given the above example of Vancouver to Toronto, this would put the billed cost up to something in the order of $6.50 per hour. Of course there is a place for this service in providing A Canadian mail system that is extremely inexpensive and not sensitive to when it is used. That is being proved every day. But for low cost news, and low cost overnight mail, I don't think we can beat UUNET. -- {ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision,uunet}!van-bc!Stuart.Lynne Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532