Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!taras From: taras@utgpu.UUCP Newsgroups: can.general Subject: Re: A Canadian Unix Network? Message-ID: <1987Aug14.222823.26027@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> Date: Fri, 14-Aug-87 22:28:23 EDT Article-I.D.: gpu.1987Aug14.222823.26027 Posted: Fri Aug 14 22:28:23 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 15-Aug-87 16:53:35 EDT References: <1987Aug4.235121.22896@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> <292@auvax.UUCP> Reply-To: taras@gpu.utcs.UUCP (T. Pryjma) Distribution: can Organization: University of Toronto Computing Services Lines: 85 Checksum: 47772 In article <292@auvax.UUCP> tech@auvax.UUCP (Richard Loken) writes: # In addition to the flakiness of packet radio comes the question, what medium # will you use to send it? # # Most packet radio work is being done by amateur radio operators who are making # great strides forward - the present technology among the technical elite is # tcp/ip on IBM-PC's using vhf multihop networks and some satellite work. Using # high technical skill and the willingness to adapt obsolete surplus equipment # one could set up a tcp/ip packet radio site on 2 metres for under a thousand # dollars easily - but computer professionals might be unwilling to do # this because they are afraid to face the words obsolete, surplus, and # (gasp!) the dreaded vacuum tube. Sorry, I couldn't resist a snarky remark. # ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I have nothing against vacuum tubes. For some applications, vacuum tubes are still the best solution, however don't ask me to build a computer with them. The major problem more than anything else is to make the system reliable and I can't seem to do it with radio. Short Wave frequently runs into atmospheric problems and FM radio in the 144Mhz only has a range of about 50 to 60 miles. Sure, those sets don't cost too much money, but I can assure you that a lot of time and effort has gone those radios, never mind the towers that those radios are connected to. And in the case of repeaters the duplexers as well, never mind that somebody has to look after the sites, which is going to be a real big pain in some place like Nothern Ontario or the Rockies. Then you still have to get permission to erect your transmitter and that is getting harder to do all the time. If I were to go that route, and it certainly makes sense for some portions, I would go the route of terrestrial microwave due to the fact that it would give us the bandwidth we would require. # The real problem is more serious. The ITU, DOC, FCC, various GPO regulations # state specifically that amateur radio can only be used for non-commercial # purposes so somebody has to export the technology and the common carriers # aren't the place to go - they have a monopoly and they expect to be paid very # well. # What you say is true, besides I would much rather have the amateurs hold onto as much of their remaining bandwidth as possible, so that they can continue to do wondrous things. Some of the carriers are not that expensive, right now there are 3 carriers that can carry TCNET (Trans-Canada tcp-ip NET) coast to coast. The carriers also know that if they do not get their act together that more and more of their bussiness is going to go to American carriers regardless of what Canadian law has to say about it. # The General Radio Service regulations (CB to you Americans) used to state # that the service could not be used for trivial purposes - it was intended # to provide cheap radio communications for small businesses, farms, etc. and # personal communications for individuals (which means telling the wife to # get the oil changed on the way home etc). Therefore if you were forming a # non-profit, non-public network among cooperating instiutions and corporations # for the exchange of non confidential information (like usenet) you might # be able to justify it. I can't imagine using 27Mhz (56000 baud would be a # real bear) but there is a chicken band up in 400 Mhz region some where which # would be appropriate. # Any band would have to come from the amateurs. I think a good rule of thumb should be that radio should be used to contact very, very remote sites like Baffin Island or mobiles, lets not waste it on something that can be carried land line. How do you expect amateurs to continue doing good work if you keep swiping their bands? # I am not recommending this approach, I am just suggesting that packet radio # is a possibility. # I did not automatically reject it either. Low cost just has this thing about it that I rather like, but so does reliability and perception of same, it encourages use!!! # ********* 73 # ********** Richard Loken VE6BSV # If you want TCNET talk to your colleges about it, and post your opinions to this group. With the current amount of traffic I see in this group, I get the impression that there is little support for it. Remember ARPANET is not privately funded, the Canadian high tech should have something similar, but most political creatures will not listen to one voice, but they will listen to many. Who will be the many? -- Taras Pryjma uucp: taras@gpu.utcs bitnet: tpryjma@utoronto Bell: +1 (416) 536-2821 Ok then, It's settled. I will have my computer call your computer and work it all out. ....... But wait ...... it won't do any good, never mind.