Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!mit-eddie!ll-xn!ames!ucbcad!zen!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!pixar!banzai From: banzai@pixar.UUCP (Eric Herrmann) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: The Final Word Message-ID: <1015@pixar.UUCP> Date: Wed, 19-Aug-87 14:42:48 EDT Article-I.D.: pixar.1015 Posted: Wed Aug 19 14:42:48 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 22-Aug-87 09:31:30 EDT References: <3737@well.UUCP> <328@l5comp.UUCP> Reply-To: banzai@pixar.UUCP (Eric Herrmann) Distribution: world Organization: Pixar (aka the Institute for Ferdian Studies) Lines: 131 Keywords: scoobydoobedoo doo-wap Pixar chakachaka Summary: But wait! If you buy now, we'll throw in Wally B! I apologize ahead of time for posting this reply on net.amiga. It seems like we should all go off to net.flame (I prefer /dev/null) or e-mail to discuss the "Pixar question", and get the hell off the amiga board. So I ask you to send replies directly to me, if you like. In article <328@l5comp.UUCP> scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) writes: >In article <3737@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >> They also feel that they have to aggressively protect their >>copyright, or they will lose it forever. >Protect it for WHAT?!?! Mickey Mouse I understand, Disney makes it's living >off things like Mickey. If everyone had Mickey then obviously Disney would >have some trouble pushing Mickey as a money making mouse. You're confused. I don't blame you. Here you say that Mickey is aggressively protected, in order to make money. Next you say that Pixar is wrong in protecting its' characters: >What exactly does Pixar think it's accomplishing by aggressively protecting >their copyright??? "The world will be safe from juggling Unicycles! We hold >the copyrights and we promise not to allow them out. And if alien unicycles >invade we'll prosecute to the fullest extent of the law." :-) Who knows, maybe Pixar might want to make money selling RD t-shirts. Who knows, they might want to sell video-tapes of RD. The idea is that the _creators_ of RD get to control the _distribution_ of RD. If they want to give RD out to everyone, that's fine. If they want to wait until next year and *then* sell video tapes, that is their right, as the creators of the character, Red. Got it? It is THEIR right to decide, not yours. Ok, you say, but a juggling red unicycle, well, _I_ could have thought of that. Ok, I say, you could have thought up a talking mouse, too, and made a hell of a lot more money/fame/whatever-turns-you-on, but someone beat you to it, and now you can't sell MM t-shirts, because you'd be ripping someone off, and they have more lawyers. >Copyrights were created for ONE reason. They were created so people would >distribute their works without fear of their being unfairly used against >the author's wishes. Gee, how about that. Does that mean that the author actually gets some degree over CONTROL of the distribution, perhaps even as she sees fit? Does that mean that she doesn't have to distribute it if she doesn't want to? What does it mean, the "author's wishes" -- does that mean that I get to tell her what she must do with it? >The key phrase above is DISTRIBUTE! If Pixar isn't going to do anything >with unicycles juggling balls why should "We The People" grant them a >copyright? Here we have Leo who it seems is interested in publishing his >work for all to see, I haven't heard a word from Pixar. When you get right >down to it the copyright law is there for US, not for Pixar. Pixar has a >copyright only because WE gave it to them. We gave the copyright to Pixar >so that they would make their work available. If they won't let me have >Leo's, where can I get theirs? If they won't let me have theirs then I WANT >LEO'S!!!! As you said, the copyright law is there to protect the author's creation against unfair use. Who is more apt to decide what the intended use of that art is, other than the author herself? Does that not imply that the law is there to protect the artist, not to gratify the masses? Once again, just because I copyright something doesn't mean that you have a right to distribute it for me. It means that I have the right to say who can or cannot distribute my work, and at what price, in what form. Just because RD hasn't been distributed yet doesn't mean it never will be. Luxo, Jr. made the rounds with the annual Festival of Animation last year, and there's no reason to suspect that RD won't follow in Luxo's ... er, hops. George Benson, apparently, won't allow unapproved pictures of his face to be published. His face is copyrighted, and all instances of his face must have the (C) stamped on his forehead. >Time to break down and do the recumbent bike juggling balls before Pixar can >move in and get the exclusive copyright on that eh? 1/2 :) Oh, incidentally, Pixar is starting a library of ALL POSSIBLE 3 minute animations on videotape (VHS and BETA, don't worry). We will generate, in sequence, all possible patterns on a screen and then combine all of those frames into all possible movies. We then will claim copyright on all of this work. Anything you produce thereafter will be OUR PROPERTY, and you will never work again. Even the static on your TV between stations will be OURS, and we will claim royalties on their transmission. Discount rates for large volume users will be announced shortly. >> Hey! Don't look so disappointed. It's not like I'm never going to >>do another animation.... >That it's the issue here Leo. It's just that we're being shown once more that >the little guy is growing more powerless with every year that goes by. That doesn't follow from our discussion. We were discussing whether or not Pixar had a right to keep Leo from distributing his work. Apparently, his work falls under our copyright. So, he can't distribute without our permission, which it happens that we don't want to give out, so that we can exercise our right to distribute through normal channels. Ergo, he won't distribute his work. In a few months, you'll see RD with the FOA, and in a year or so you can buy it on video tape. Simple enough? The condensed version: He did, we didn't, so he won't. >How to react? If Pixar doesn't wish to make copies of Red's Dreams >available to me then I guess I fight back the only way I can. I slap on >restrictions in the copyrights on my works that keep Pixar from being able >to use them. They won't share with me, why should I share with them? Fairly >simple logic. Well, that's your right, to control distribution of your work as you see fit. I doubt that an excusionary clause, saying that "no employee, family of employee, former or future, of Pixar, Inc. may use or distribute this work for any purpose" would hold up in court, but I doubt that anyone from Pixar would ever have a reason to challenge such a provision to your work. >One last thought before I hit the sack, is 'Pixar' trademarked? With these guys >being so obviously anxious to aggressively defend stuff I guess we'd better >start saying 'Pixar is a trademark of...' if it's needed. I suspect that as a company name, the name Pixar is trademarked, but I don't see little (tm)'s anywhere, neither have I heard of any policy telling us to use them. I think it would only matter if another company put out a machine called a Pixar. Hey, maybe we can sue AT&T(tm) for putting out their Pixel machine, which is obviously so similar to ours. Then, we can go on to sue Epyx games. This is great! >To Pixar, if yall are going to make video tapes of Red's Dreams available >please E-Mail me the details. I've just never seen ANY offers from Pixar to >buy/rent/freebie anything, be it unicycles or Luxo lamps. Apparently, Pixar just signed an agreement with some video company to distribute Luxo, Jr. It'll probably be overpriced, all 3 minutes of it, but you'll be able to buy/rent it, anyway. If you want a copy of RD, why don't you e-mail me? I'll compress all zillion frames of it and e-mail them to you. >Scott Turner Did you know that Pixar spelled backwards is raxiP? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night flights on a music ship, leaving on a never-ending trip Just say YES! Eric Herrmann ucbvax!pixar!banzai