Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!rutgers!ucla-cs!zen!ucbvax!WALKER-EMH.ARPA!InfoMail-Mailer From: InfoMail-Mailer@WALKER-EMH.ARPA Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit Subject: Undeliverable Mail Message-ID: <8708081803.AA02119@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Sat, 8-Aug-87 13:34:00 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8708081803.AA02119 Posted: Sat Aug 8 13:34:00 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 9-Aug-87 11:44:31 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 493 Mail was not delivered to the following users because there were bad address(es) in TO and/or CC field(s): info-atari UNDELIVERED-MESSAGE: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Received: from score.stanford.edu by BBN.COM id aa26960; 7 Aug 87 22:39 EDT Date: Fri 7 Aug 87 13:12:48 PDT Subject: Info-Atari8 Digest V87 #66 From: Info-Atari8 @ SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Errors-to: Info-Atari8-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Maint-Path: Info-Atari8-request@Score.Stanford.EDU To: Info-Atari8 Distribution List: Reply-to: Info-Atari8@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Text: Info-Atari8 Digest Friday, August 7, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 66 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Impending Post of C Compiler Re: Impending release of Kermit-65 Interfaces for the Atari... New Atari Products More Info on CC8 SHRINK, the one that works! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 Aug 87 17:34:13 GMT From: cbosgd!cbterra!smk@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Stephen Kennedy) Subject: Impending Post of C Compiler To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu For real this time :-) This is to notify everyone that the 8 bit C compiler I threatened to post last May will be posted in the next day or two (1 doc + 1 uuencoded binary). Steve Kennedy cbosgd!smk ------------------------------ Date: 4 Aug 87 23:59:13 GMT From: hanley@nyu.arpa (John Hanley) Subject: Re: Impending release of Kermit-65 To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu In private correspondence with John Dunning the chicken-and-egg problem came up of getting _a_ Kermit, any Kermit, onto a micro that doesn't have one. Once you have even the most kludgeful ancient copy you can always use it to snag a different version. Experienced modem users will have at least one program that can capture stuff coming off the modem and dump it to disk files; these people will have no problem reading UUDECODE.BAS and the encoded KERMIT.UUE, and running uudecode to create KERMIT.COM (or whatever the filenames are). These people are not who I'm concerned about. A fair number of people will be relatively new to modeming and will have only dumb-terminal software, either booted off the modem or from a disk that came with the modem. What they need is something that will vacuum characters off the modem port and tuck them away in memory, and then write that large buffer out to disk at the end. The right way to do this, of course, is to figure out how to get characters back from the modem and embed that in the main program's loop, but the variety of modems and interfaces means that you will have to deal variously with packetized/ serialized/parallelized/nybblized data and be able to provide simple instructions (remember, this is supposed to be a novice user) that say, here, type in this one-screen BASIC program and do thus-and-so to get KERMIT.UUE and UUDECODE.BAS onto disk. Then you're home free. But the instructions are bound to miss somebody's modem or interface or be not quite debugged so that Joe_luser is guaranteed to understand them and do the right thing, or some exception will pop up, or whatever. Basically, this would be easier if we had a standard environment. Hmmmm. *Everyone* has a PIA. And just about everyone reading this newsgroup is reading it using an account on either a university or company computer. This computer almost certainly has at least _one_ RS232 port that could be borrowed at least _once_ for a special occasion when you bring in your Atari to download Kermit to it. ('Course, you probably have a perfectly good 232 snaking up to your desk even as you read this and using it for other purposes it would be _no_ _big_ _deal_.) SOOooo, having justified my reasoning in the hope of warding off massive flames about all the rules I'm about to break below, on to the meat of the article. This is my proposal: Have someone write a short 6502 routine that shifts bits in from port A of the PIA and on cue calls CIO to write the whole mess out to disk. Or let BASIC do the disk I/O, I really don't care. Following is the level-shifter that prompted all these musings: PIA port A, MSB RS232 RxD, pin 3 TTL input ---------------+--------------------- +/- 12 V |cathode - 5 V Zener diode ^ |anode PIA GND ---------------------/\/\/\/\/------- RS232 SGND, pin 7 10K resistor 1E3 apologies for not posting the joyport pinouts! John Dunning said he'd look them up tonight; I just don't have that info, here. I messed around with this circuit a fair amount before posting it and am pretty confident that it shouldn't damage any equipment, but don't blame me when you kill your Atari or your host's terminal driver. Be particularly careful that you don't short out the 10K or insert the Zener backwards. The band on the +----++ |\-+ diode marks the -----| ||------- -----| >|------- cathode end: anode +----++ cathode anode |/ +- cathode I don't see how I could make it much clearer than that. You've been warned. The 10K simply protects the RS232 driver from having to drive too much current. I initially tried it between RxD and the diode but found that I couldn't drive the TTL input to ground: the diode would open up and the input would just float high. It currently limits current to a little over a mA. Feel free to use larger values. The Zener protects the TTL input from ever seeing any voltage outside the range (5V, -0.7V). I used Radio Shack Cat. No. 276-565, a 5.1V Zener, and had no problems. Presenting a -0.7V input isn't actually quite Kosher (you're theoretically never supposed to go below either 0 or -0.3V), but it's no great stress either. Ideally you should pick about a 4.2V Zener that turns on at 0.3V instead of 0.7V. Don't go above 5.1. Theory of operation: When pin 3 is between -12V and -0.7V, the diode conducts and the TTL input is connected to ground (actually it sees -0.7, not 0 -- I measured -0.5 for my Zener). The -12V or whatever is across a 10K, so ~1mA flows. This is the normal (no data) case. When pin 3 is between -0.7V and 5V, the Zener is an open circuit and the TTL input is connected to pin 3. Somewhere in this region the TTL will discriminate between logic low and logic high (my 7400 turned on at pin 3= 0.7V; it also exhibited a little hysteresis: it didn't turn off until pin 3 dropped to about 0.2V). When pin 3 is between 5V and 12V, the diode zeners, preventing the voltage across it from _ever_ going above 5V. Excess voltage goes across the 10K, letting as much as 0.6mA of current flow. This is the case for data bits being sent or break being held. I should mention that I haven't actually hooked this up to a PIA (because I'm living about 60 miles away from my Atari and we don't have any PIA's around here), but I _have_ tested this with real 12V RS232's and real low power Schottkey TTL circuits: a 7400, with input going to a NAND gate and another one used to double-invert to drive a LED. Never fried the '00, and it seemed to work fine from 110 to 9600 baud (use a small (~40 ohm) resistor on the LED to catch those 9600 flashes). So, there's the hardware part: 2 whole parts and probably way more explanation than was necessary. Now will someone out there with better access to an Atari than me hack out the timing needed to shift bits in from the PIA and buffer them up? No need to do spiffy autobauding or anything. To get the inital timing down, I suggest you run a tight loop of fetch data-bit from PIA, store, increment address to store to, loop. Looking at how long values repeat for will give you an idea of how many instructions you can execute before the bit changes, and how stable that number is. Good luck! --John Hanley, / / ____ __ __ System Programmer, Manhattan College [ ..cmcl2!mc3b2!jh ] /__/ /__ / /-< /-/ Researcher, NYU Ultracomputer Labs [ Hanley@NYU.arpa ] "The Ultracomputer: to boldly go in log N time where no N processors have gone before." ------------------------------ Date: 5 Aug 87 16:44:07 GMT From: nysernic!itsgw!leah!jtj040@RUTGERS.EDU ( John Thomas Jaster) Subject: Interfaces for the Atari... To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu I would like to know if anyone has any information about inexpensive Modems for an Atari 800 xl and an Avatex 1200 hc.. I would also like to if the Supra mpp 1150 is compatible to the Atari 850. John Bunch ARPA-Internet: J.Bunch@UACSC1.ALBANY.EDU BITNET: JBB665@ALBNY1VX.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 6 Aug 87 07:52:53 GMT From: super.upenn.edu!eecae!nancy!msudoc!conklin@RUTGERS.EDU (Terry Conklin) Subject: New Atari Products To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu Hi. I'm interested in keeping my Atari 8bits useful in my home with it's new Unix machine. I have been putting up with VT10-squared and that's simply not acceptable. I would like to get an 80-column box as soon as possible, assuming it has about the quality of an IBM mono display. (PS. For the record, I checked, character by character, bit by bit, the char] sets of Omnicom and VT10sq and they are virtually identical, at least what we have, so any comments to "easier readability" of one or the other are completely in the minds of the viewer. Then again, how many ways can you MAKE a 3 bit wide character set!) Also, the 1200-baud modem was announced some time ago and we haven't heard much since, so can we safely assume this is not coming out? Meanwhile, I kinda expected to see the new 8bit drive a lot sooner than this, since Atari has been selling an "XL look" drive to go with it's XEs and they _can't_ like that. Does anyone know where I can pick this up as well? I'd like to retire my 810 to the kitchen with the 400 as a local drive. Please filter out any vaporware places. We've already discovered a few advertising vapor-software and hardware who will take your money but have nothing to ship. Any field comments on the quality of the 80-col output versus "industry standard" 640 X 400 output on other mono-text systems (IBM, ST) would be appreciated. Terry Conklin conklin@cps.msu.edu ihnp4!msudoc!conklin ------------------------------ Date: 6 Aug 87 18:54:01 GMT From: cbosgd!cbterra!smk@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Stephen Kennedy) Subject: More Info on CC8 To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu A few more things about this version of the compiler: I've noticed a couple of "features" CC8 has inherited from Deep Blue C. One is that the "for" statement will not accept null expressions. Thus, for ( ; ; ) needs to be written for ( 0; 1; 0 ) Ugh! Will be fixed next version... The other is that the compiler also insists that the expression to the left of a [ be of type pointer or array. However, the definition of C states that the expression "a[23]" is the same as "23[a]" (since it is also equivalent to "*(a + 23)"). This may not get fixed. A couple of other tidbits: o the maximum number of array bound that can be declared is 6 (7 if "array of ... array of int|char"). More and the compiler runs out of space for type descriptors. Don't tell me 6 isn't enough! :-) o The compiler understands "left curly", "right curly", and "tilde" (meaning whatever graphic or control character they happen to map to in ATASCII). o add "Constant expression may be used as case label" to the future features list. ---- Steve Kennedy ...!cbosgd!smk ------------------------------ Date: 6 Aug 87 17:26:26 GMT From: mtune!codas!novavax!potpourri!pkopp@RUTGERS.EDU (Paul Kopp) Subject: SHRINK, the one that works! To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu Just great. The uuencoded "shrink" program I posted doesn't work! I'm destined to make it up to everyone. (I hate uuencode anyway.) What I've done here is written a "C" program that encodes/decodes binary files (the program's mine but I got the algorithm from _Unix_World_). Just split this posting up into seperate files, compile the encode/decode program, and run it on the coded "shrink" file below. I made sure it works this time, it does! Have Fun! BTW...I put a ----CUT HERE--- at the end of this posting so you'll know that you got the complete file. Gould Inc., Computer Systems Division, in Sunny South Florida ** The opinions (if any) expressed are my own. ** ...seismo!gould!pkopp OR ...akgua!ucf-cs!novavax!gould!pkopp And remember: A path is a thing that you have running between two shrubberies of slightly different heights. The encode/decode program: ---------------------------- CUT HERE --------------------------------- #include main(argc,argv) int argc; char *argv[]; { FILE *fopen(),*in,*out; int c; int i=0; int choice; if(argc < 4) { printf("\nusage: %s [-e -d] in_file out_file\n",argv[0]); printf("where: -e = encode file\n"); printf(" -d = decode file\n"); exit(); } if((in=fopen(argv[2],"r")) == NULL) { printf("Error opening input file\n"); exit(); } if((out=fopen(argv[3],"w")) == NULL) { printf("Error opening output file\n"); exit(); } if(!strcmp(argv[1],"-e")) /* Encode File */ { while ((c = fgetc(in)) != EOF) { fprintf(out,"%02x", c); if (++i == 30) { fprintf(out," \n"); i = 0; } } fprintf(out," \n"); exit(); } else if(!strcmp(argv[1],"-d")) /* Decode File */ { while(fscanf(in,"%2x", &c) != EOF) fputc(c,out); exit(); } fclose(in); fclose(out); } ---------------------------- CUT HERE --------------------------------- And now, the coded version of "shrink": ---------------------------- CUT HERE 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