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From: gardner@prls.UUCP (Robert Gardner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Drawing in Technical Environment
Message-ID: <5353@prls.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 3-Aug-87 17:42:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: prls.5353
Posted: Mon Aug  3 17:42:17 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 4-Aug-87 06:17:16 EDT
References: <3538@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU> <5277@prls.UUCP>
Reply-To: gardner@prls.UUCP (Robert Gardner)
Organization: Philips Research Labs, Sunnyvale, California
Lines: 43

In article <11292@amdahl.amdahl.com> howard@amdahl.UUCP (The Toolmaster) writes:
>The way I see it so far; Sun/Apollo/DEC? workstations are nice machines, but
>the software is the killer.  Those companies appear to be heavily discounting
>now that they don't fully run the market and the low end machines are edging
>into the picture.  But the so called "low end" machines still enjoy low end
>pricing of their software. 
>

True, but the ws vendors are now trying to change that by pressuring the
software suppliers and noting buyers don't like spending more on a single
software package than they did on the hardware, while Mac software prices
seem to be going up, so I don't know how much longer the argument will hold.
Quality (and usability) of software is still an issue, which depends very
much on what you plan on doing with your system once you have it.
Note, also, that it's usually only the entry-level (diskless) workstations
that are inexpensive -- and they are usually not (cheaply) upgradeable. 

My original posting said that the hardware (_including_ a cheap version of 
Interleaf) offered to us by some workstation vendors was nearly price-
competitive with our _Mac SE_ (NOT Mac II) proposal! The hardware differences
are substantial (to name a few, speed, RAM, screen size, networking). The
question remains: Can the Mac II (for workstation use, not document
processing -- whatever those mean) compete? The price was right until just
a few months ago. Now the Mac II is MORE expensive than most entry-level
workstations. (I am NOT comparing equivalent systems, but rather operational 
systems. For instance, the Mac II can be cheaper if you need color or stand-
alone operation -- many workstation environments are set up to share hard
disks and, as we all know, you can do a lot w/o color:-) 

>Now, I'm probably about to start a war of epic proportions so let me just
>remind everyone that this is comp.sys.mac and if you have comments, mail them.
>

Maybe someone would like to comment on what IS appropriate fodder for
comp.sys.mac? Is there some other, more appropriate, forum where there is
at least a remote chance that the right people at Apple will hear concerns
from the people who will be or are purchasing their equipment? And shouldn't
developers be concerned when they fear they are seeing the erosion of
their (potential) market? Though we're all happy Apple is making lots of
money, developers are also very concerned about number of units being
sold into the markets they are developing for.

Robert Gardner