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From: mwm@eris.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: brash micros versus the Big Iron: not yet
Message-ID: <4949@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Wed, 31-Dec-69 18:59:59 EDT
Article-I.D.: jade.4949
Posted: Wed Dec 31 18:59:59 1969
Date-Received: Wed, 2-Sep-87 06:53:23 EDT
References: <622@winchester.UUCP> <12953@amdahl.amdahl.com> <630@winchester.UUCP> <1202@pdn.UUCP> <640@winchester.UUCP> <2628@ames.arpa> <645@winchester.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer)
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica
Lines: 46

In article <645@winchester.UUCP> mash@winchester.UUCP (John Mashey) writes:
<In article <2628@ames.arpa> eugene@pioneer.UUCP (Eugene Miya N.) writes:
<>
<>While I am fully aware that VAXen are "popular" machines, the 780 is over
<>ten years old.  It makes me wonder: why not use the measure of ENIACs
<>instead?  [Don't try to answer that, better to strive for better forms
<>of measurement] It's was one of Perlis' epigrams to have 100 ENIACS on a chip.
<
<This is a fair complaint from Gene.  We use vax-mips (or VUPS) because:
<	1) DEC's machines are calibrated this way, so that you can also
<	compare with 8700s, etc, if you're very careful.
<	2) They do communicate information to many people, who at least
<	have a feel for the speed of an 11/780.  Not that many people
<	have a feel for ENIACs.
<	3) We at least have some!

You forgot:

	4) This group (Usenet, MIPS, or some such) is dealing with 
	Unix, and most Unix wizards will be familiar with the 780.

It hasn't been that long since, if you really wanted to run Unix, you
either had a 780 (no 750 back then) or a PDP-11, and the world was
shifting to VAXen. Nuts, I even remember Bill Joy telling me at a
Usenix that "VAXen are where everything interesting is going to be
happening" ('twas true, 'twas true).

Since most sites worrying about mini/supermini-sized Unix boxes will
have someone around who has a feel for what a 780 is/does, they make a
good benchmark standard. This will change with time, but by then
they'll be entrenched. I can see it now:

	Wizard: "This machine is 1e23 11/780 mips."
	Wwtb: "What's an 11/780."
	Wizard: "Dunno. We've always used them to measure machines, though."

Of course, as someone who deals with large timeshareing Unix boxes,
I'll be happy to tell you why a Sun 3/xx at 2 or 3 11/780 mips won't
replace a real 780..... 

	<mike
--
ICUROK2C, ICUROK2.				Mike Meyer
ICUROK2C, ICWR2.				mwm@berkeley.edu
URAQT, I WANT U2.				ucbvax!mwm
OO2EZ, I WANT U2.				mwm@ucbjade.BITNET