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From: rw@beatnix.UUCP (Russell Williams)
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Subject: Re: 360 vs Vax stuff
Message-ID: <494@elxsi.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 3-Sep-87 11:06:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: elxsi.494
Posted: Thu Sep  3 11:06:50 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 5-Sep-87 10:56:34 EDT
References: <430@astroatc.UUCP>
Sender: nobody@elxsi.UUCP
Reply-To: rw@beatnix.UUCP (Russell Williams)
Organization: ELXSI Super Computers, San Jose
Lines: 36
Keywords: Vax-bashing

In article <430@astroatc.UUCP> johnw@astroatc.UUCP (John F. Wardale) writes:
>I believe the encoding of VAX instructions prevents one from 
>making it go fast, while still being affordable.  (Its a
>point-of-diminishing returns question.)  Comments...Anyone think it'd be
>(economically) worth building a VAX 3X or 10X the current top-vax?
>Or has it [as I feel it has] reached the limit for current technology.

   DEC doesn't think so -- they're building one, or so I hear.  What the cost 
will be is open to question, but I understand their margins on existing machines
are quite high and going up all the time.  Maybe it won't be so high on the
next one, but when you sell that many it doesn't matter as much.  People in 
DEC's or IBM's position don't have to have the most cost-effective architecture 
by a long shot.  Once you're firmly established, the disadvantages of your 
architecture become less important because you have the advantages of:
1. More R&D$ to optimize your implementations -- how many companies can afford
   to invent TCMs?
2. Volume manufacturing -- you can buy in big quantities or mfr. subsystems
   and/or chips in-house, and you can buy expensive mfg. equipment to drive
   down costs.
3. The "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM (DEC) effect".  In most market
   segments, you must have a substantial price/performance advantage over
   the leader to get customers, and even then there are many who will stick
   with the industry leaders at almost any price. The best example of this I 
   can think of is Amdahl.  Even though their machines are compatible, highly 
   reliable, etc.  IBM still sells many times more machines with inferior
   price/performance (of course I realize there are other reasons too, but
   that's a major one).  

   I won't deny that the VAX architecture is a handicap in building fast
machines, but DEC has the market lead and resources to pursue any of several 
options over the next few years.  I don't know if they can build complex VAXen 
to compete with more easily scalable architectures indefinitely, but they can 
afford to eat some loss in margin until they figure out what to do.  

Russell Williams
..{ucbvax!sun,lll-lcc!lll-tis,altos86}!elxsi!rw