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From: neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: first languages
Message-ID: <1053@bsu-cs.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 25-Aug-87 22:28:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: bsu-cs.1053
Posted: Tue Aug 25 22:28:35 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 28-Aug-87 01:39:27 EDT
References: <2575@ames.arpa>
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana
Lines: 45
Summary: TANSTAAPL

In article <2575@ames.arpa>, lamaster@pioneer.arpa (Hugh LaMaster) writes:
> In article <1039@bsu-cs.UUCP> neubauer@bsu-cs.UUCP (Paul Neubauer) writes:
> >am not impressed by the counterargument that Pascal is not what they will be
> >using "in the real world".  After all, a first language is exactly that -- a
> 
> I would argue that the reason Pascal is not frequently used in the "real
> world" of systems programming is because of a serious problem that the
> (non-extended) language has: lack of modularity.  Those who have done either
> ...  Pascal is woefully inadequate
> as a modular language, and has many counterintuitive features that are
> artifacts of its origins on systems where the paramount goal was a small
> memory, very fast, very simple compiler.
> Back to the original question:
> A teaching language ought to contain support for the most frequently used
> concepts in programming.  Modula-2 probably has the best combination of
> support for modularity, nested procedures, information hiding, &etc., so my

Now this is a good argument.  In fact, I happen to agree that Modula-2 is a
neat language.  It does have reasonably good support for those very
important concepts.  I have seen too many students complete degrees without
having *any* notion of modularization.  ("Link?  It's just another
mysterious thing I have to do before I can run my program.")  Modula-2 (or
Ada) would force students to come to terms with modular programming, and
that has to be a good thing.  The question is:  Is that something you want
to make them do on DAY ONE?  I am not necessarily saying that it is not,
but, somebody out there, what do YOU tell YOUR students on the first day
when they have to IMPORT (M-2) or instantiate (Ada) their IO procedures?
("I'll tell you what you are doing next semester" just doesn't cut it.)

I will say again:  a first language is not (should not be) a last language.
Any CS major (and that IS what we are talking about here) had better learn
several languages at least passably well before getting a degree.  I really
do think that Wirth had the (or at least a) right idea here.  The idea being
that for the FIRST course, students ought to learn a language that will not
immediately overpower them with details.  We can then hope that they may
even learn something about problem-solving and algorithms and top-down
design.  Pascal's compilation efficiency is also a MAJOR advantage.  Think
about how often beginning students recompile their programs and the effect
that can have on system performance (especially if YOU also have to use the
same system :-).  Pascal is obviously not perfect, but (with apologies)
TANSTAAPL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Perfect Language).  That's why
there has to be a second (+ third + ...) language.

-- 
Paul Neubauer 	UUCP:  {ihnp4,seismo}!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!neubauer