Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!rutgers!ames!amdcad!sun!gorodish!guy From: guy%gorodish@Sun.COM (Guy Harris) Newsgroups: comp.sources.d Subject: Re: Standard C Programming - wot a dumb idea. Message-ID: <26297@sun.uucp> Date: Sat, 22-Aug-87 03:02:30 EDT Article-I.D.: sun.26297 Posted: Sat Aug 22 03:02:30 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 23-Aug-87 11:38:16 EDT References: <1101@laidbak.UUCP> <656@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM> <1113@laidbak.UUCP> Sender: news@sun.uucp Lines: 74 Keywords: standard c flame > I agree, I do not think that the use of structures, unions, or whatever, > should be restricted but rather gracefully use so those who do not under > stand what they are downloading can figure out how to handle things. > Remember, USENET is for the support of computers and languages both for > the 'guru' and for the novice. At least that is the way I feel about it!! If you don't understand what you download, you have to be prepared for it not to work. If some function can be better performed by using an algorithm or data structure that J. Random BBSUser can't understand, that's just too bad. Some of these programs are not *intended* for them; others may be intended for them to *use*, but not to *maintain*. How many writers using a word processor do you think would understand all the details of some code to reformat text on the screen? > The BBS group I talk to are mainly kids or people that are starting with > 'C' and the questions I get are mainly with externs, as in "Where is that > referenced". They fail to understand that some information can be global. > Most look at passing of information via arguments to a function call as > global. Sorry to sit and burn but as a programmer I understand the use of > various abilities that 'C' offers but I mearly wanted to defend the > 'little user' as well. So? These programs aren't posted so that people can use them to learn C; they are posted so that they can be compiled and run. Again, how many computer users would necessarily be able to understand *all* the programs they use? I doubt that there's even any programmer here at Sun who understands *all* of the software here in full detail. > >>11. use standard includes - stdio.h curses.h termcap.h ctype.h ect.... > > > >Standard based on what? Posix? Xopen? SVID? BSD4.2? This is > >unfortunately pretty useless as a guideline. > > Why? Is 'stderr' different on all machines? You mean I can't pipe something > to 'stdout' on another? ... unlikely ... Maybe this is unlikely on UNIX machines, but there may be C implementations that have *none* of the include files listed above! Even ANSI C, while it does require and , does not say anything about "curses" or "termcap", and neither does POSIX. > That is true. But there are those who would like to see some standard > that a shared community can work with. I have seen a lot of support for > BSD's, Sys V, and others but with the number of home systems and BBS's that > are comming up within USENET, a new realm of users now must be supported. By saying that this new realm of users "must" be supported, you are either making a moral claim or stating a fact backed up by law or some other form of authority. If the latter, please indicate what this authority is, and be forewarned that a lot of good programs aren't exactly known for their respect for authority.... If the former, I simply reject that claim, and I'm sure a lot of others do as well. There are realms where egalitarianism may be a Good Thing; programming isn't one of them - it tends to be a Bad Thing there (as well as in other technical fields). Naive egalitarianism tends to be an Even Worse Thing. > If one doesn't like the idea of supporting other 'lesser educated' users, > I'm sure that there are a lot of other newsgroups that one can subscribe > to or unsubscribe from. > > > "How about comp.c.standard?" Fine. If *you* want a newsgroup requiring C code to be written to the lowest common denominator, so that the code in it can be understood by the least sophisticated users and the least sophisticated systems, go ahead and set it up. Don't try and require that an existing community adhere to these arbitrary standards, though; it is not your right to say that that community should move to "other newsgroups". Guy Harris {ihnp4, decvax, seismo, decwrl, ...}!sun!guy guy@sun.com