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From: elwell%tut.cis.ohio-state.edu@osu-eddie.UUCP (Clayton Elwell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Comparing computers (was: Mac Multitasking? Hee-hee!)
Message-ID: <4026@osu-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 24-Aug-87 10:57:51 EDT
Article-I.D.: osu-eddi.4026
Posted: Mon Aug 24 10:57:51 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 25-Aug-87 05:46:01 EDT
References: <3632@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> <1372@killer.UUCP> <2731@husc6.UUCP> <4854@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
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Reply-To: elwell%tut.cis.ohio-state.edu@osu-eddie.UUCP (Clayton Elwell)
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Xref: mnetor comp.sys.mac:5957 comp.sys.amiga:7738

In article <4854@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My
watch has windows) Meyer) writes:
><They must envy the seamless (from the user's perspective)
><interaction between the computer and printers, which has now
><been extended to the Fax modem.
>
>Not much. For high-quality work I go to things that blow the Mac out
>of the water. 300 dpi just doesn't cut it for camera-ready text.

But Mike, this is what he means.  I don't know about you, but MY
high-quality output device is a Linotron 300 (2540 dpi).  All I do is
choose "Print" from the menu.  I can even do color seps and other fun
stuff just as simply.  How exactly do you "blow this out of the
water?" :-)

><They must envy the
><fantastically generalized system design which allows the
><computer to use kanji scripts as easily as Roman, and have kanji
><appear effortlessly in menus, dialog boxes, everywhere. 
>
>Not as much as I (as a Unix systems hacker) appreciate the
>fantastically generalized system on the Amiga, which lets me do FM to
>just about anything in the system.

FM? Field Maintenance? Frequency Modulation? Please to explain...

>The one thing I do envy is resources, which lets the user control more
>than they can on the Amiga (but not a lot more - resetting menu
>entries, etc can be done on the Amiga, too). Then I look at the code
>that you have to write to deal with them, and get ill. 

This has more to do with who's writing the code (and in what language)
than anything else.  I'll give the Amiga one thing--it's easier to
understand at first than the Mac is.  Then again, I think this is
because it's an improvement over the glass-tty-with-bells-and-whistles
approach :-).

><And starting this month they're going to envy Hypercard. 
>
>I've seen HyperCard. It's about 90% of what I want in a hypertext
>system.  Then again, infominder is about 90% of what I want in a
>hypertext system, too. Just different 90%s. I envy that it's being
>bundled with Macs. I shudder at watching it run on an 8 bit plane Mac
>][. If it were available for an Amiga at $50, I'd buy one. At $100, I
>wouldn't. Finally, the question of whether HyperCard can properly do a
>hypertext system is still open. The answer apperas to be "yes," but I
>want to see it done.

HyperCard is not hypertext.  HyperCard has some concepts that were
introduced by the hypertext folks, but it isn't any more than Apple
claims it to be: a personal tool for organizing information.  There
are people working on dropping hooks into it to connect it to real
hypertext systems (you know, gigabytes of data on big, fast
computers), since it makes the user interface half of things much
easier.  Even so, it's not hypertext, any more than an Amiga is a Cray
just because they can both do ray tracing...

><Amiga owners, that's why we like the Macintosh: we have
><respect for a job well done.
>
>Odd; that's why I like the Amiga.

I like the Amiga too.  Aside from the Mac II, it's one of the nicest
pieces of hardware out there.  Too bad the software doesn't do it justice.

><The Mac had a lot of problems when it started out, and Apple has taken
><great strides to get rid of them with elegant solutions.
>
>The Amiga doesn't have a lot of problems, it's only got a couple. I
>expect them to be solved well before the Amiga has been out for 5
>years.

What about the new problems that arise in the meantime?  Apple has
shown an excellent track record in keeping up with (and forseeing) new
problems.  This is due in a large part to the flexible and generalized
software architecture.  Can most vanilla programs on the Amiga work in
Arabic without recompilation, and with precious little resource editing?

><Of course we wish would could multi-task now, but we're willing 
><to wait rather than sacrifice the other tangible benefits of our 
><machine, which are much more important in the long run.
>
>I get tangible benefits from multitasking *now*. I don't have a lot of
>use for what you claim are the tangible benefits of the Mac.

Most of the time, I get more tangible benefits from the thought that
went into the design of the Mac (and its software) than I do out of
the multitasking that's present on every other machine I use.  To pick
an example out of a hat, my C compiler is so fast that I don't have
time to fire up a terminal emulator and download a file while it's
compiling.

>... none of
>the things I use a computer for would noticably benefit from having a
>Mac around.

What about things you don't use a computer for right now?

>             On the other hand, the ability to do more than one of
>these things at a time is a mondo win.
>
>Show me a Multifinder box with a compile running in one window, and a
>vt100 emulator doing a download in another, and then I'll be willing
>to consider swapping my Amiga for a Mac.

You don't need MultiFinder to see this.  On the other hand, you do
need a slow compiler :-).

>For other people, other criteria are more important. Each person
>buying a computer needs to consider what they are going to use it for.
>I've recommended people buy IBM PCs, Ataris, Macs and Radio Shack
>boxes.  It depended on what they wanted them for. Blindly pushing one
>computer for all applications is a disservice to those who expect
>expert advice from you.

Funny, now we seem to be agreeing...  How'd that happen :-)?

>	<mike
>
>
>--
>All around my hat, I will wear the green willow.		Mike Meyer
>And all around my hat, for a twelve-month and a day.	mwm@berkeley.edu
>And if anyone should ask me, the reason why I'm wearing it,	ucbvax!mwm
>It's all for my true love, who's far far away.		mwm@ucbjade.BITNET

[Good taste in music, too.]


-=-

Clayton Elwell

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