Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!rutgers!sri-spam!ames!lll-lcc!lll-tis!ptsfa!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!splut!jay From: jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix Subject: Re: SCO Xenix support Message-ID: <93@splut.UUCP> Date: Tue, 25-Aug-87 09:24:59 EDT Article-I.D.: splut.93 Posted: Tue Aug 25 09:24:59 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Aug-87 08:57:31 EDT References: <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> <56@splut.UUCP> <133@turnkey.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: Confederate Microsystems, League City, TX Lines: 85 Keywords: support Summary: I'm no computer dummy...why should I be charged as one? In article <133@turnkey.UUCP>, root@turnkey.UUCP (Super user) writes: > In article <56@splut.UUCP>, jay@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes: > > In article <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, davidsen@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP (William E. Davidsen Jr) writes: > > > I really like the SCO product, but their support policy seems just short > > > of useless. It is aimed for the first time user, who will ask stuff like > > > "how do I add my xyz printer?" It only covers the first N days (90 I > > > think, but it may only be 30). > > > [...] > > > Does anyone else share my opinions? > > > > I can't speak to SCO, but Microport has the same policy (though they're not > > quite as expen$ive). They want $149/year for technical support, and that > > includes calls to report bugs! Real, live, system crashes. > > > > I don't object paying for handholding (I'll do without instead), but for a > > vendor to charge me to fix a bug in his product is absurd. I love SV/AT, but > > would not recommend it to anyone except a Un*x wizard, simply because it'll > > cost him too much to get it running, both in sweat/tears and tech support $ > > (they also removed the tech support people from their 800 number :-P ). > > I think both of you are forgetting the proper perspective in this issue, after > all have you ever inquired what a company running Unix on, say, a Vax 11/780 > is paying for its tech support? I have a feeling that $149/yr would be a paltry > sum by comparsion. Jay, when you say you would not recommend uport to anyone > but a "Un*x wizard" you forget that most sites employ just such a person to > keep their system functional, they are called system administrators and it is a > full time job. Of course when you port Unix to a small system like an AT, it > is a different economic situation, but the operating system is no less complex > and, thus, to expect support to compare to, say, your printer problem with > Wordstar under DOS just is not fair. Believe me, I sympathize with you both > in terms of our dollars spent, but I also understand the position of SCO and > Microport. Technical staffs are not cheap, and if SCO must employ the so-called > Un*x wizard to help you, then why should they foot the whole bill? It all boils > down to the issue of the cost of such a system, you cannot run a complex OS > like Xenix or uport Unix without the attendant costs of tech. administration, > if you are able to provide it yourself, fine, otherwise one must just expect > to have to pay for that service, whether from an independent consulting firm, > or from SCO or Microport directly. You may even be able to get a freebie or > two from the net :-}. Before I get into this, let me mention my personal background. I've been involved in microcomputers for 10 years, doing everything from dedicated control systems to accounting applications to OS implementation. I am also a systems programmer (IBM/370-style) with 6 years experience at the systems level. I know enough to RTFM, and even diddle around with likely problems, before I call for support. (asbestos suit on) IBM's support policy is one of the most enlightened I've seen. If you suspect a software problem, you pick up the phone, call 1-800-237-5511, give them your customer number, and then get as much technical support as they can provide on the phone. If they can't resolve it on the phone, they'll dispatch a person to come look at the problem locally and talk to you and the support center. If your system's down, they'll drag as many people out of bed to work on your problem exclusively until it's fixed. I realize that this level of support is unnecessary in the personal computer environment. I expect, however, to at least be able to call in to check if the problem I'm having is a reported bug, or a new one, and to have someone look at it if it hasn't been reported before. I don't demand that they have someone work on my problem alone, or that they drop what they're doing to get my system back up; I don't think that I should have to go to a Un*x internals class to run a system on my AT, either. There have been several major problems reported against SV/AT; a couple of them are deadly - like the bug that panics the system if you hang up on it while it's sending output to a /dev/tty line. Bugs they know about, and should be in the process of fixing; or bugs they haven't heard about yet, and are serious enough to cause major user problems. I should be able to do nothing in installation or customization to cause the entire OS to panic and go down in flames. Systems implementors assume a responsibility to have the Un*x wizards on staff to resolve problems such as this. Supposedly, the sale price of the product covers such expenditures. I don't object to charges for user handholding, and would not even object to giving them a Mastercard or Visa number at the beginning of the phone call, but I would object to having that card charged if the problem turned out to be a real, live system bug. I paid for working software. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC...>splut!< | uucp: hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!nuchat!splut!jay "Don't ask ME about Unix... | (or sun!housun!nuchat) CI$: 71036,1603 I speak SNA!" | internet: beats me GEnie: JAYMAYNARD The opinions herein are shared by neither of my cats, much less anyone else.