Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site hoptoad.uucp Path: utzoo!hoptoad!tim From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers,alt.flame Subject: Re: Out of control (was Re: Bear novel) Message-ID: <3022@hoptoad.uucp> Date: Tue, 22-Sep-87 08:31:37 EDT Article-I.D.: hoptoad.3022 Posted: Tue Sep 22 08:31:37 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 23-Sep-87 07:18:31 EDT References: <3496@rutgers.rutgers.edu> <1179@quad1.quad.com> <27951@sun.uucp> <3013@hoptoad.uucp> <1593@killer.UUCP> Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) Organization: Sun Microsystems, TOPS Division, Berkeley Lines: 85 Xref: hoptoad rec.arts.sf-lovers:7000 alt.flame:113 In article <1593@killer.UUCP> billw@killer.UUCP (Bill Wisner) writes: >When was this ever characterized as a nasty, spiteful insult by anyone >besides yourself? [...] Have you had professional training in blowing things >out of proportion or is it a natural talent? Well, here's what Chuq had to say: >If you're going to make nasty comments about authors, and least give >yourself some basis for it. You might as well say that Bear is a rotten >person because his first name is Greg -- it makes as much sense. Have you had training in distorting the facts, or is it a natural talent? >Has anybody noticed how rampant paranoia has been on the net lately? Some people, like Chuq and Matt Wiener, naturally arouse suspicion by behaving in an obnoxious fashion. Chuq has a number of times attacked me in ways that evaded responsibility for doing so, a common occurrence on the net, and certainly not Chuq's exclusive purview (or solely directed at me). While it does appear I was incorrect in this case - friends at Locus have informed me that he attacks the magazine frequently for no apparent reason - I do not accept that it is paranoia to accuse someone of repeating a prior offense. >Here, Maroney is convinced that Chuq personally dislikes him because of >an ephemeral connection with Locus magazine. Got any proof, Timmy? Now, now, I don't call people names and I would appreciate not being called any. If you want, I can cite letters in which Chuq insults me personally and says he dislikes me. These were hard to get - I tried to patch things up between us years ago and he refused to admit in e-mail that he disliked me, though he had already told a number of other people that he did. He has finally started admitting it not only to others but to me. >I'm surprised Mark Ethan Smith even gets out of bed in the morning, >considering all the paranoia he has been expressing lately. We have anti- >semitics pulling his accounts on two systems. We have chauvinistic UNIX >wizards deliberately contriving to insure that he is not allowed to post >to soc.women from Berkeley. Well, don't worry, Mark, some of us really ARE >out to get you. And, of course, all of us who are after you are men. Hey, now there's a good way to discourage paranoia. Nice job. If I'd been through what Mark has, I'd probably be about as paranoid as he is. It's been hard enough keeping things in balance since finding, and making public, proof of a conspiracy against me at UNC. It would almost have been better not to know. Remember, just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you (as you have proven for Mark). >> He's also taken up recommending that everyone KILL-file anyone >> Chuq dislikes or feels threatened by. > >Chuq is quite free to recommend anything he wants to. That does not mean that >the public-at-large is in any way compelled to FOLLOW those recommendations. Nor did I say it is. Nothing about coercion was mentioned by me, anyway. The issue at hand was the rudeness of asking everyone to stick their fingers in their ears and sing the Star-Spangled Banner whenever certain people start talking. And the main victim I was complaining about was Omega Mosley, who I don't like much myself, but who deserves better than that. >> It would be nice if people would try >> a little harder to keep their personality problems off the net. > >Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? I don't think so. I make every attempt to keep my temper under control and to avoid making egotistical pronouncements, and I have gotten better and better at this as the years have gone by. (The infamous shout of "YOU LIE!!!", which was truthful but uncalled for, was only after three people told the same bald-faced lie: I held myself back as long as I could. These days, I would probably have just ignored the whole thing, because I'm more practiced.) I have seen no evidence that Chuq does the same, or even admits that these flaws are part of his personal repertoire. Everyone has failings, myself certainly included, but I assure you I really try hard to restrain mine. Chuq, on the other hand, sees nothing wrong with telling all and sundry that he deserves a Hugo (he started saying this even before the first issue of OtherRealms, and never stopped) and recommending to others that they KILL-file people he dislikes. I would like to see a similarly self-critical statement from Chuq before I retract my request. And to all those who are about to jump on me for admitting my failings: think about how this makes *you* look first. -- Tim Maroney, {ihnp4,sun,well,ptsfa,lll-crg}!hoptoad!tim (uucp) hoptoad!tim@lll-crg (arpa)