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From: gsmith@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Illegal Flame
Message-ID: <8710030807.AA26295@garnet.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 3-Oct-87 04:07:16 EDT
Article-I.D.: garnet.8710030807.AA26295
Posted: Sat Oct  3 04:07:16 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 4-Oct-87 04:41:27 EDT
References: <315@cc5.bbn.com.BBN.COM> <3967@well.UUCP>
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Organization: Garnet Gang Gems of Wisdom, Inc.
Lines: 60

In article <3041@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes:
>In article <18322@amdcad.AMD.COM> phil@amdcad.UUCP (Phil Ngai) writes:
>>In article <3002@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes:

>>Tim, don't you think there is a difference between trying to get
>>someone to voluntarily leave the network and going over their head to
>>their boss and having them terminated? Not that I like the brahms gang
>>but there seems to be a critical difference in methods here. 

>Second, I think a thought experiment would be in order.  Suppose that you
>enjoy going out to eat for dinner, and do so most every night.  Now suppose
>that someone decides to follow you to each restaurant you go to, and blow
>cigar smoke in your face throughout the meal, chortling after each puff and
>saying "What's the matter, gook, can't stand the heat?"

  Let's try another such experiment: suppose the unlucky gourmand
in question is himself well-known for boorish behavior: he not
only picks his nose in public, he smokes a pretty odiferous pipe
himself and often annoys people by blowing it in *their* face.
Now suppose he has the cigar smoker arrested for conspiricy to
commit mopery, and for good measure swears out a complaint
against the cigar-smoker's friend, because while said friend
hasn't been following him around, he *does* chew tobacco and once
squirted some on the gourmand's shoe. This, my pipe-smoking chum,
is what happened. (Of course I ought to add that the gourmand in
question lies his head off to the cops in order to help the bust
go down.)

>There is more to coercion than grabbing someone by the neck and forcing them
>to do your will (a point many libertarians seem permanently closed against).
>Harrassment is coercion as well, even if no physical restraint is involved.

  You should be happy Libertarians stick to their principles: it's what
keeps *you* posting.

>>It's all very nice for you to flame people from the safety of a
>>private machine run by one of the most liberal people around but it
>>seems a little cowardly. I only hope Matthew gets an account with
>>similar immunity one day.

>If I ever commit any of the specific offenses I have described by the Brahms
>gang, which clearly step over the line between flaming and harassment, which
>you have not responded to, and which I would guess you did not personally
>witness, then I would hope that John and Laura would have the sense to
>refuse to participate in my criminal activities. 

  You already *have* steped over the line: you harassed Matthew,
and you told lies, and you dragged me into your little
"conspiricy".

>As it is, I haven't
>discussed it with John, but Laura at least is well aware of the huge
>differences in volume, intent, and method.

  In whose favor? When I talked to her, she was defending your
right to tell lies about me, not claiming you hadn't done so. I
suspect she would rather we just left her out of it.

ucbvax!garnet!gsmith    Gene Ward Smith/Garnet Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
    "*That* the world is, is the mystical." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein