Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!hoptoad!uunet!husc6!bbn!uwmcsd1!marque!ddsw1!karl From: karl@ddsw1.UUCP Newsgroups: alt.flame Subject: Re: of flames and sources (was: Re: Fred - A terminal Program) Message-ID: <251@ddsw1.UUCP> Date: Fri, 9-Oct-87 19:52:34 EDT Article-I.D.: ddsw1.251 Posted: Fri Oct 9 19:52:34 1987 Date-Received: Mon, 12-Oct-87 02:21:37 EDT References: <246@ddsw1.UUCP> <203@papaya.bbn.com> <451@brandx.rutgers.edu> Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) Distribution: alt Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. - Mundelein, IL Lines: 76 In article <451@brandx.rutgers.edu> webber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) writes: >In article <203@papaya.bbn.com>, rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: >> In alt.sources (<246@ddsw1.UUCP>), ringwld!jmturn@CCA.CCA.COM (James M. Turner) writes: >> XCopyright (c) 1986, Pipe Dream Associates >> X >> XFRED is shareware, Pipe Dream Associates retains any and all >> Xcopyrights to this software. It may be copied or uploaded so >> Xlong as no attempt is made to charge for it. >> XFRED represents a great deal of work on my part, over a year of >> Xdevelopment. I have no real desire to market this as a product, but >> Xif you find FRED useful, you might see your way to send me something >> Xto recompense this development time. >> >> Sigh. You could argue that as moderator of comp.sources.unix I have an >> axe to grind, but I really hate people using the net to post shareware; >> my phone is being used to help you get money (yes, BBN has UUCP links :-). > >I agree with you 100%. This is blatent commercial usage of the net >(as well as attempted emotional blackmail for those of you who >remember net.singles a few years back). A much bigger threat to the >net than even the backbone. FLAME ON !! I disagree 100%. No one is attempting to extort or blackmail anyone. How many of you out there in 'netland' use Procomm? How many paid the validation fee? Your phone is being used to help people get money all the time. Look at the technical groups, please. How many times have you heard "This (product, company, etc) is really great" with a disclaimer "I am only a user of the product" or something similar. This puts money in people's pockets too. Do you object to this kind of posting as well? And how often does the net help you or your company in daily business? HAS IT EVER? If so, *you too* are commercially exploiting the net. Shall we just cut off all the technical groups and sources too, leaving only those groups which seem to never help anyone (soc & talk!). C'mon, folks. No one *forces* you to contribute -- in fact, the posting in question didn't even mention a specific contribution as 'recommended'! Are you arguing that you'd rather not see this kind of posting at all? I don't know about you, but Fred is useful to me here. Why is it so terrible to do the equivalent of 'panhandling' if you've provided a useful tool? Also -- I don't know whether you've ever put out shareware -- but I have. Believe me, if you tried to live on the money you'd starve -- and quick. I would estimate, from experience, that less than 1% of the people who obtain such software cough up anything! A much greater threat than the backbone?? Please substantiate this statement. I don't see how posting such articles threatens anything -- ESPECIALLY considering that it was posted to the 'alt-net'. I always thought that 'alt' was a place for postings that didn't belong (or wouldn't pass muster) in the other groups. After all, you are free to unsubscribe, or not carry the group at all if you're terribly affronted with this sort of thing! In short, I don't see anything wrong with someone asking for a small contribution for their efforts. Just like the panhandler on the sidewalk, you are always free to ignore the request. (Let's also not forget that our comp.binaries.ibm.pc moderator was posting PKARC 3.5, which is *SHAREWARE*, on a monthly basis for a while. No one seemed to have a problem with the shareware status of this product -- in fact, the binary group STANDARDIZED on this archiver! You wanna talk commercial use and extortion??? Hell, PKARC was shoved down our throats!) FLAME OFF. -- Karl Denninger UUCP : ...ihnp4!ddsw1!karl Macro Computer Solutions Dial : +1 (312) 566-8909 (300-1200) "Quality solutions at a fair price" Voice: +1 (312) 566-8910 (24 hrs)