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From: mike@turing.unm.edu.unm.edu (Michael I. Bushnell)
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
Subject: Re: gnumacs bindings
Message-ID: <636@unmvax.unm.edu>
Date: Sat, 19-Sep-87 07:53:04 EDT
Article-I.D.: unmvax.636
Posted: Sat Sep 19 07:53:04 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 20-Sep-87 16:08:27 EDT
References: <3590005@hpindda.HP.COM> <8709181153.AA08300@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Sender: news@unmvax.unm.edu
Reply-To: mike@turing.unm.edu (Michael I. Bushnell)
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 74

In article <8709181153.AA08300@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> jthomas@nmsu.CSNET writes:
>
>   At 15 Sep 87 16:50:26 GMT, Jack Repenning said:
>   ...
>   If this tremendous cultural river against which Emacs swims is a local
>   phenomenon, then I'm fairly happy with monkeying with the keyboard
>   translate table.  It just seemed a little odd that anyone would want
>   to swim against that current in the first place.
>   ...
>It seems to me that this "cultural river" is relative.  Emacs started on a
>system which used DELete to mean just that (and most of the terminals had a
>nice DELete key!).  Some(how,when) Unix(tm) picked (first "#" and then)
>BACKspace to mean delete.  (I assume some Unix guru's keyboard didn't have
>a decent DELete key?)  Now Emacs runs on Unix systems, and Unix users are
>used to BACKspace.  (But in:

ACK!  NO!  NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!


BOGUS!!! Do Not Listen To This Garbage!!!!!#Q@#%@#!^@$%!%$


Go to your login prompt.  GUESS WHAT???? DEL works!!!!!! So does
^H!!!!!

THEY BOTH WORK.

UGH!!!!!

There is NO predisposition in UNIX for BS instead of DEL!!!!


>   ...    The problem
>   faced by anyone using an HP keyboard (aren't many other keyboards like
>   this, too?) is that the BACKSPACE key is big, friendly, easy to hit,
>   and used by every other program commonly run to mean (what in emacs we
>               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   call) backward-delete-character.
>he said that programs use BACKspace to mean delete - isn't he really saying
>that most users have stty'ed BACKspace for del ??????)

That IS what he is saying!!! Vi has no preference.  Nothing does.  But
Emacs is strapped for keys.  So it has to use only one key per
function, and the most logical choice is DEL.  Look at the ASCII
specification!!!!  It quite plainly states that DEL means "ignore last
character," while BS means "move print head back and overstrike."  My
seventh grade typing instructor was quite adamant about the differece
between overstriking and erasing.

>Unfortunately the keyboard world seems to have divided between ones with
>decent DELete keys and ones with decent BACKspace keys.  We can discuss the
>philosophical ideas of C-h, but for many the non-existence of a DELete key
>forces the use of BACKspace to mean delete.  (And I'm about to buy one of
>those turkeys!?!?)
>
>Jim Thomas		jthomas@nmsu.csnet	formerly JNTCS@UNO.BITNET


Ugh.  Most terminals now being produced (with the notable exception of
HP's) have an easily locatable DEL key.  On a VT-240, etc., it is the
key with a <- and an 'x' on it.  The BS key is hidden up on the
function key row.  Every terminal has a decent BS key, the one most
people I have seen is ^H.  But they don't have a decent DEL key, ^?
just doesn't quite hack it.

ACK!  UNIX could care less what you use.  Really.  It is quite up to
you.  Fortunately, EMACS lets you pick.

					Michael I. Bushnell
					a/k/a Bach II
					mike@turing.UNM.EDU
---
Hold the MAYO & pass the COSMIC AWARENESS...
				-- Zippy the Pinhead