Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!rutgers!ucla-cs!zen!ucbvax!WALKER-EMH.ARPA!InfoMail-Mailer From: InfoMail-Mailer@WALKER-EMH.ARPA Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.8bit Subject: Undeliverable Mail Message-ID: <8709190102.AA22901@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Fri, 18-Sep-87 20:49:00 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8709190102.AA22901 Posted: Fri Sep 18 20:49:00 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 20-Sep-87 06:27:41 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 367 Mail was not delivered to the following users because there were bad address(es) in TO and/or CC field(s): info-atari UNDELIVERED-MESSAGE: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Received: from BBN.COM by WALKER-EMH.ARPA ; 19 Sep 87 00:40:46 GMT Received-2: from score.stanford.edu by BBN.COM id aa17527; 18 Sep 87 20:36 EDT Date: Fri 18 Sep 87 12:58:02 PDT Subject: Info-Atari8 Digest V87 #82 From: Info-Atari8 @ SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Errors-to: Info-Atari8-request@Score.Stanford.EDU Maint-Path: Info-Atari8-request@Score.Stanford.EDU To: Info-Atari8 Distribution List: Reply-to: Info-Atari8@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Text: Info-Atari8 Digest Friday, September 18, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 82 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Re: custom 6502 Re: custom 6502 Re: More wierd questions... Re: 1200xl and the cpu and OSe user groups. 65C802 processor card. wanted: 800xl monitor pinout The 6502 difference Re: 600XL Upgrade to 256k ? Where and How? Re: File Format of ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Sep 87 05:30:42 GMT From: ihnp4!upba!eecae!conklin@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Terry Conklin) Subject: Re: custom 6502 To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu A couple people have found out (somehow?!) already and since this question was brought up I might as well mention that I have already been working on the 200% Turbo XL. The 6502 in the XL ("Sally") is, as was sumarized, a 6502 with tri-state buffering. When a chip goes tri-state, it becomes electronically transparent. Antic tri-states the 6502 so that it doesn't react when Antic starts accessing memory. The 400/800 (and the TRS-80 for that matter) had tri-state buffers on the board. To lower the chip count on the XL line, Atari made a custom 6502 that moves those buffers into the CPU. We have long known/required a socket that would simply externalize those buffers so as to make a path for the XL/XEs take a 65802/65C02. ActuallyI don't care what you put in it as long as it's pin compatible and runs 4 Mhz. This socket is indeed a possibilty, I've just been too busy messing with the rest of the timing considerations. Mathematically computed benchmarks of the Turbo XL show it runs quite favorably with the IBM PC, Mac, and (suprise!) ST. This was borne out to some extent with the release of the turbo- upgrade for the C64. I have no plans for attempting a 16-bit version of the mod. Granted the 64 mod is, but I am planning this mod to be along the lines of the 256/320 XL/XE memory upgrades. Something that many can make, easily. The memory upgrade is great, and I strongly reccommend it to anyone who does anything other than play Pacman. Please dont ask major techincal details, since I'd like to make a little money from the efforts on this. By no means do we intend on letting this mod cost more than $50. If it gets that way, then it gets to be PD. Terry Conklin (and, actually, partner in crime Ken Sumrall) ihnp4!msudoc!conklin or ARPA: conklin@cps.msu.edu or we generally carry this discussion on the Club's ATARI base at (517) 372-3131. Disclaimer: I bought a Unix machine of my very own. That puts MIGHTY cross-interests in with this. But if you want results now, well, get that Kermit65. It's still great! ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 87 01:55:38 GMT From: aramis.rutgers.edu!knutsen@RUTGERS.EDU (Mark Knutsen) Subject: Re: custom 6502 To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu In article <2578@eecae.UUCP> conklin@eecae.UUCP (Terry Conklin) writes: > A couple people have found out (somehow?!) already and since > this question was brought up I might as well mention that I > have already been working on the 200% Turbo XL. > Mathematically computed benchmarks of the Turbo XL show it runs > quite favorably with the IBM PC, Mac, and (suprise!) ST. This > was borne out to some extent with the release of the turbo- > upgrade for the C64. > Please dont ask major techincal details, since I'd like to > make a little money from the efforts on this. By no means do > we intend on letting this mod cost more than $50. If it > gets > that way, then it gets to be PD. I still can't believe I'm reading this. You mean to say I'll soon be able to purchase an upgrade that will double the speed of my 800XL? Hot diggedy! Only a few general questions: When? Where? Major caveats of the increased clock speed? (That is, will all software run?) Will there be a hard or software switch to bring the speed down to normal if desired? If this proposal becomes a reality, you will indeed "make a little money" from the efforts. -- Mark K. -- _________________________________ Jersey\\\\\\\\ _____________________________ ARPA: knutsen@rutgers.edu | \\\Atari\\\\\\ | GEnie GE Mail: M.KNUTSEN UUCP: {...}!rutgers.edu!knutsen | \\\\\\Computer | The JACG BBS: (201)298-0161 --------------------------------- \\\\\\\\\Group ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 87 17:19:45 GMT From: muscat!striepe@decwrl.dec.com (Harald Striepe) Subject: Re: More wierd questions... To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu In article <3940@well.UUCP> rshuford@well.UUCP (Richard S. Shuford) writes: > >Perhaps someone on the network knows whether, and if so how, one can >still obtain programs from the Atari Software Program Exchange. >In that collection used to be a program called Chameleon, which I'm >told could do a fair VT52 emulation. > >.....Richard S. Shuford > hplabs!well!rshuford > BIX: richard APEX is dead. ANTIC has taken over a major portion of their catalog, but I remember that in their catalog in the middle of their magazine it was noted that the CHAMELEON stock was getting low. John Dunning's K65 posted on this net contains the best VT100 emulator so far, and also includes VT52 emulation. You have a choice of scrolling 40 columns, or 80 columns in GR.8 mode using fairly legible 4 bit cells. >(Comments back to me by mail, please.) -- Harald Striepe Digital Equipment Corp., SPG Mktg, Sunnyvale, CA decwrl!muscat!striepe, decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-canvas!striepe, CANVAS::STRIEPE ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 87 22:55:37 GMT From: hans@umd5.umd.edu (Hans Breitenlohner) Subject: Re: 1200xl and the cpu and OSe To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu The XL and XE systems, as well as some 400s (maybe all), have a 6502C cpu chip. Its main distinction is the fact that it can tri-state the address bus, a feature which none of the standard 6500 family chips have. I recall reading that there is a chip in the 65c00 family which does have the tri-state feature (maybe 65c11), but have no information as to whether its pinout is compatible with the Atari chip. Being somewhat non-standard, it might also be considerably more expensive or harder to find. As far as I know there are no programming differences between the 6502 and the 6502c. As far as souping up the XL with a faster cpu, I have two concerns: 1. coordinating a faster cpu and the standard Antic might be quite a challenge. You would need memory which can run at slow and fast cycle rate, depending on who is talking to it. And while there is a fair amount of slack in memory timing with the current design, a significant speedup might cause much difficulty. 2. The i/o bandwidth is about 1920 bytes/second, and unless you main goal is to compute prime numbers, or do Mandelbrot pictures, any speedup is likely to make the i/o restrictions seem even more painful. Of course you might have disks on an MIO or similar device, but then you need to re-visit the first point I made. ------------------------------ Posted-From: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA To: cothrell@dockmaster.ARPA Subject: user groups. Date: Tue, 15 Sep 87 23:29:30 EDT From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA The closest one is probably B.A.C.E., which stands for I dunno what but their address is: B.A.C.E. Paul Freeman 6502 Smokehouse Court (neat address, eh?!) Columbia MD 21045 Paul's phone number is (301) 381-6642. This group has over 60 PD disks available, charges about $1 per disk plus some postage. Another useful one is Novatari, the Northern Virginia Atari Users' Group, c/o Earl Lilley, 821 Ninovan Road, Vienna, VA 22180. They charge about $3 per disk plus $1 per 3 disks to cover postage. They also publish a very worthwhile newlsetter called Current Notes. -John Sangster, jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa ------------------------------ Posted-Date: 15 Sep 87 19:18 EDT Date: Tue, 15 Sep 87 19:17 EDT From: Cothrell@DOCKMASTER.ARPA Subject: 65C802 processor card. To: info-atari8@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU thanks for all the responses to my questions concerning the cpu in the later versions of the atari. to summarize the responses: 1. the CPU is indeed custom. 2. the custom part is internal to the 6502 and is responsible for tri-stating the address bus. 3. the "new" 6502 has pin 35 defined as "tri-state the bus" 4. everything else about the cpu appears to be standard 6502. now for my observations... I have built 2 processor cards(they drop into the cpu socket of my 1200xl), one with the circuitry of the old 800(from schematics) and one with a design of my own. Neither works...and I don't know why. I suspect the tri-state signal from the ANTIC. I have successfully duplicated/generated the bi-phase clock as well as the other circuitry. One of the potential problems is the wishy-washy signal levels I am getting(and generating) from the rest of the circuitry. the normal clock levels seem to be symetric about 1.25 V. The rest of the system seems to be little better. (the clocks have a swing of about .5V p-p) Perhaps the Atari chips are CMOS??? I dont know. The tri-state signal(HALT) from the ANTIC is by far the weirdest signal I have seen in digital electronics(ever!). Perhaps my scope is picking up harmonics or something, but I swear that the signal has at least 4 parts, one of which registers on my scope as a +5 flat-line. there are some high speed digital signals that register CLEARLY under the +5v with enough swing to definitely be on/off cycles. If anybody else can take a scope to their atari, check out pin 9 of the ANTIC or 35 of the CPU. I know that I am at the upper limit of my porta-scope when looking at that signal, but I can see enough to make me wonder just what all the activity is about. (just to be sure, I tried it on ac and dc couple, same picture). Anyway, they circuitry for the 800 seems to produce the cleanest signals, so I am saving that circuit...suggestions as to fixes, etc... are welcome. Scott Cothrell Cothrell at Dockmaster.Arpa ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 87 13:51:01 GMT From: umb!ileaf!io!kevino@husc6.harvard.edu (Kevin Osborn) Subject: wanted: 800xl monitor pinout To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu Could somone email me the pinouts of the monitor connection on the 800xl? I recently pulled my 800xl out of the closet to do some programming and couldn't find the hardware documentation. Thank you, Kevin Osborn ...harvard!umb!ileaf!kevino -- Kevin Osborn uucp: ...ihnp4!harvard!umb!ileaf!kevino "If we can put a congressman in orbit, why can't we put a President on the sun?" - overheard at lunch ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 87 16:01:01 GMT From: mtune!codas!novavax!potpourri!pkopp@RUTGERS.EDU (Paul Kopp) Subject: The 6502 difference To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu This was posted on the net a while back. I saved this because I knew I would need it someday. ------------------------------ Apparently the so called "6502" used in the Atari's is a custom modified chip, hence its not using the industry type JDEC number. From Mike at Xerox comes the following: Atari 6502c #C014806 standard 6502 pin no. function pin no. function 36 READ/WRITE 36 N.C. 35 /HALT 35 N.C. 34 N.C. 34 READ/WRITE Therefore one could bend up pins 34 and 36 and do a wire connection to swap these two pins, but that would still leave you without a /HALT command. (Presumably the halt command is necessary.) I do not know if the 6502c chip used by Atari is identical between the original 400/800, the intermediate XL series and the current XE series. Gould Inc., Computer Systems Division, in Sunny South Florida ** The opinions (if any) expressed are my own. ** Mail paths?, oh yea mail paths: ...!{sun,pur-ee,brl-bmd}!gould!pkopp ...!{ihnp4!codas,allegra}!novavax!gould!pkopp Remember: A path is just a thing that you have running between two shrubberies of slightly different heights. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Sep 87 04:41:28 GMT From: mtune!codas!burl!clyde!watmath!hpchang@rutgers.edu (Hsi P. Chang) Subject: Re: 600XL Upgrade to 256k ? Where and How? To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu In article <14540@watmath.waterloo.edu> hpchang@watmath.UUCP (KILROY) writes: > > > I would like to ask for your help in finding a way to upgrade the Atari > 600xl to 256k. I would appreciate any help on this... > Thanks in advance..... I would like to ask for your help in tracking down this person "KILROY" who has been abusing my account. If you know anything about this person please reply mail to this account. This abuse to my account is highly unacceptable. Hsi P. Chang ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 87 05:03:03 GMT From: sunybcs!canisius!vaughan@ames.arpa (Tom Vaughan) Subject: Re: File Format of To: info-atari8@score.stanford.edu Does anybody know how to get at the file from bitnet? I haven't been having any success finding out if it even possible. Thanks in advance ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari8 Digest ************************** ------- -------------------END OF UNDELIVERED MESSAGE-------------------