Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mcnc!ece-csc!ncrcae!ncr-sd!hp-sdd!hplabs!kitty!larry From: larry@kitty.UUCP Newsgroups: news.admin Subject: Re: Mark Ethan Smith: For real? Message-ID: <2058@kitty.UUCP> Date: Fri, 2-Oct-87 01:46:43 EDT Article-I.D.: kitty.2058 Posted: Fri Oct 2 01:46:43 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 3-Oct-87 09:27:10 EDT References: <378d6016.b8ab@apollo.uucp> <5261@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <2050@kitty.UUCP> <1975@midas.TEK.COM> Organization: Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, NY Lines: 114 Summary: Responsibility of Usenet sites for user conduct In article <1975@midas.TEK.COM>, darcic@midas.TEK.COM (darci chapman) writes: > >> >Is this Mark Ethan Smith for real, or an elaborate... > > BTW, yes though we have not met in person. > > > No Usenet site should have anonymous users. > > Since Mark does sign his articles with his legal name how does this imply > that he is an anonymous user? How do you KNOW that is his/her legal name? There have been serious questions raised in a number of articles by a number of people as to whether this person is real. I am certainly not the only person to raise such questions - only the most recent. I posted my article to news.admin following an article by an administrator at berkeley who stated that "Smith" had not responded with evidence to support some outrageous accusations about persons at berkeley interfering with news. There is not one shred of evidence posted to identify "Smith"; even you admit that you have never met her/him. "Smith" posts no address or telephone number, and does not appear to be an employee of or student at any organization on the Net. I can pick up the telephone and eventually find you through Tektronix. You can certainly find me at the organization and telephone number always appended to my articles. But we can't do this for "Smith". So, what EVIDENCE exists that this person is "real" as claimed? > And if Larry Lippman continues to falsely accuse people in a public forum > of fraud then I suggest that the appropriate system admin: > 1. Post to the Net any identifying information in their possession > about "Lippman". > 2. Revoke any accounts (such as "Lippman's") which are used to accuse > people of fraud when they have no evidence to support such accusations. *I* am the system administrator at my site, and thank you very much, but I'll leave my account intact. *I* take responsibility for everything I post. I consider Usenet to be an electronic publication, and as such feel that anyone who posts articles has to bear legal responsibility for same (the site also shares responsibility). I don't say anything that I am not prepared to defend - legally, or otherwise. If you or anyone else wants to sue me for libel, by all means do so. You can find me at my organization almost every day, and the street address is available from the uucp maps or directory assistance in order to serve a summons and complaint. But "Smith" is quite insulated from such recourse. How does one find "Smith" through a public access UNIX system or as a non-student paid account at berkeley? I object to this lack of recourse. I find it interesting that in spite of serious questions raised about "Smith", in a recent article, 1501@dasys1.UUCP, rsweeney@dasys1.UUCP (Robert Sweeney) takes a protective attitude by stating "It is our policy to keep all personal information we possess concerning our users strictly confidential." This strikes me as a rather formidable and defensive position, considering that dasys1 is a "public access" UNIX system run as a hobby by 20 year-old Charles F. Foreman from his parent's apartment in Manhattan. [I have proof of these details, in case anyone is wondering]. I state the above, because it makes ME wonder if "Smith" is merely an assumed name used by young Mr. Foreman. I have a particular "beef" with "Smith" - who, because I disagreed that "pornography causes violence" - stated in article 1412@dasys1: "If you're the same Larry Lippman I've heard of, you've produced porn for your friends and to sell products, and are not in the least bit reasonably objective on the subject." "Smith" has no knowledge of me, no knowledge of my friends, and no knowledge of my work (I am a consulting engineer and research scientist - I don't sell products!). The use of the word "if" in "Smith's" allegation does not function as a disclaimer of liability for false accusation. So my point is: how do I find "Smith" if I want recourse for his/her libelous statement? UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, is it responsible administration for the sites permitting "Smith" accounts to protect and insulate this person from responsibilty for his/her statements? > Lippman has in the past posted some very obnoxious remarks and so the > above really doesn't really surprise me - I just think he should learn to > use the 'n', 'j', and/or 'u' keys instead of demanding that people who don't > conform to his idea of "proper" be denied access to a public forum. Funny, isn't it, that *I* am trying to clean up the same type of nonsense to which *YOU*, Ms. Champman have objected, to wit: [---start of article excerpt---] From: darcic@midas.TEK.COM (darci chapman) Newsgroups: soc.women Subject: Re: Outgrowth of attacks by Mark Ethan Smith Summary: Really, Good-bye Keywords: Please read this... Message-ID: <1974@midas.TEK.COM> Date: 30 Sep 87 19:56:03 GMT References: <1546@killer.UUCP> <2403@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> <4232@udenva.UUCP> <7399@sri-unix.ARPA> <1645@chinet.UUCP> <7676@sri-unix.ARPA> Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. In article <7676@sri-unix.ARPA> maslak@sri-unix.UUCP (Valerie Maslak) writes: >Here's how I take it. This group has degenerated into stupid >quarrels over who is masquerading as whom of which sex and why, >and I don't have time for it. So Molly is masquerading and Rhonda >isn't and let's define what IS woman-bashing and what isn't.... ... I've tried to listen to many sides of an argument, only to get frustrated when people insist upon clouding the issues, side-stepping arguments, and being so closed-minded as to make the whole thing useless. The last straw has been multiple cases of men posting with "female" names and one going so far as to claiming certain feelings "as a woman." [---end of article excerpt---] So, we are on the "same side" in this issue - although you don't seem inclined to admit that. <> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <> UUCP: {allegra|ames|boulder|decvax|rutgers|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <> VOICE: 716/688-1231 {hplabs|ihnp4|mtune|seismo|utzoo}!/ <> FAX: 716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3 modes} "Have you hugged your cat today?"