Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!tektronix!midas!darcic From: darcic@midas.UUCP Newsgroups: news.admin Subject: Re: Mark Ethan Smith: For real? Message-ID: <1985@midas.TEK.COM> Date: Fri, 2-Oct-87 16:45:31 EDT Article-I.D.: midas.1985 Posted: Fri Oct 2 16:45:31 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 4-Oct-87 01:35:15 EDT References: <378d6016.b8ab@apollo.uucp> <5261@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <2050@kitty.UUCP> <1975@midas.TEK.COM> <2058@kitty.UUCP> Reply-To: darcic@midas.UUCP (darci chapman) Distribution: world Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 121 First of all, I have taken the majority of this to e-mail, but feel obliged to post the following: In article <2058@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes: >In article <1975@midas.TEK.COM>, darcic@midas.TEK.COM (darci chapman) writes: >> > No Usenet site should have anonymous users. >> Since Mark does sign his articles with his legal name how does this imply >> that he is an anonymous user? > How do you KNOW that is his/her legal name? How do you KNOW that it isn't? And since you don't KNOW that it isn't, how do come off accusing Mark of fraud and concealment? You have never answered how Mark Ethan Smith's actions constitute *fraud*. > *I* am the system administrator at my site, and thank you very >much, but I'll leave my account intact. Well, how convienant - really, now, I didn't expect the sysadmin (even if it wasn't you) to take my suggestion any more seriously than I expected the other sysadmins to take *yours* seriously. > *I* take responsibility for everything I post. I consider Usenet >to be an electronic publication, and as such feel that anyone who posts >articles has to bear legal responsibility for same (the site also shares >responsibility). I have to disagree vehemently: the sites do NOT bear legal responsibility whatsoever for any articles posted by its users. >I don't say anything that I am not prepared to defend - legally, or otherwise. Well, according to Mark Ethan Smith himself: [begin of article excerpt] Newsgroups: soc.women,misc.legal,news.misc Message-ID: <1514@dasys1.UUCP> Date: 2 Oct 87 04:58:10 GMT References: <1939@midas.TEK.COM> Reply-To: msmith@dasys1.UUCP (Mark Ethan Smith) Organization: The Big Electric Cat The Big Electric Cat is a public access unix system, and has a notice posted publicly that it is in no way responsible for any postings by users of the system. I am fully and totally responsible for all my postings, and in particular I am specifically fully responsible for my postings regarding Larry Lippman. BEC (dasys1) is in no way responsible for anything I post. [...] Larry Lippman's phone call to the operator of this site was apparently meant to intimidate. He apparently wanted to hold the site responsible for my postings, which he apparently claimed were slanderous. If he believes that anything I said was slanderous, which it definitely was not, he can contact me directly. I am responsible for my postings, not the site. Larry phoned, rather than writing to, the SA, apparently to maintain plausible deniability regaring his intimidation. Such intimidation is reprehensible. For public access and free speech to exist, Larry, you have to accept that the individual, not the public access site, is responsible for postings. If you have a problem with me, contact me. And post publicly, where people can see what you are saying and doing. [end of article excerpt] And finally: > Funny, isn't it, that *I* am trying to clean up the same type of >nonsense to which *YOU*, Ms. Champman have objected, to wit: [I say about leaving soc.women: ] >The last straw has been >multiple cases of men posting with "female" names and one going so far as to >claiming certain feelings "as a woman." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >[---end of article excerpt---] > So, we are on the "same side" in this issue - although you don't >seem inclined to admit that. WRONG, Mr. Limpman, we are not on the same side at all. 1. Mark Ethan Smith has never claimed to be a man. (If you make that assumption based on the poster's name alone, that is your mistake). Neither has he posted something that related to his feelings "as a man". There was, however, a man who *claimed to be a woman* and expressed certain views because he "was a woman." That is was I was objecting to. I hope that you (and others) can see the difference. Please also notice that I did not ever and do not now advocate the pulling of that person's account and/or USENET access. I did however, decide that I needed a break from all of that and have since unsubscribed to soc.women (hint, hint, Mr. Lippman). 2. According to Mark Ethan Smith, that is his legal name and as I have never seen proof otherwise, I will have to stand by that. (What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?) However, I had strong suspicions as to the real gender of the person I mentioned above and proceeded to take the issue to e-mail where I believe such queries belong. I have also been told that if you have a question about Mark's gender (like "how can you say a woman feels this if you're a man?") he will most likely share that information with you via *e-mail*. Darci Chapman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>>>> Intelligent responses welcome, flames to /dev/null <<<<<<<<< {major backbone}!tektronix!midas!darcic darcic@midas.UUCP darcic%midas.tek.com@relay.cs.net darcic@midas.TEK.COM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~