Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!hoptoad!uunet!pyrdc!grebyn!macom1!coldbeer!roth From: roth@coldbeer.UUCP Newsgroups: alt.flame Subject: Re: of flames and sources (was: Re: Fred - A terminal Program) Message-ID: <243@coldbeer.UUCP> Date: Mon, 12-Oct-87 15:48:00 EDT Article-I.D.: coldbeer.243 Posted: Mon Oct 12 15:48:00 1987 Date-Received: Thu, 15-Oct-87 06:46:49 EDT References: <246@ddsw1.UUCP> <203@papaya.bbn.com> <451@brandx.rutgers.edu> Distribution: alt Organization: Eve of Destruction Labs, Ardmore, MD. Lines: 74 Summary: Sanctimonious Nonsense from the both of you I'm going to respond to both Webber and Salz in this article. In article <451@brandx.rutgers.edu>, webber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) writes: > In article <203@papaya.bbn.com>, rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: > > In alt.sources (<246@ddsw1.UUCP>), ringwld!jmturn@CCA.CCA.COM (James M. Turner) writes: > > XCopyright (c) 1986, Pipe Dream Associates > > Xif you find FRED useful, you might see your way to send me something > > Xto recompense this development time. > > > > Sigh. You could argue that as moderator of comp.sources.unix I have an > > axe to grind, but I really hate people using the net to post shareware; > > my phone is being used to help you get money (yes, BBN has UUCP links :-). Your phone is already being used by others for their pecuniary benefit. Do you realize that comp.sources.wanted in monitored by salesmen looking for leads? Earlier this year I posted an inquiry to comp.compilers and I recieved phone calls and letters from the salesmen of four different companies all trying to sell me their compiler within a week of the posting. And yes, horror of horrors, :-) some of them contacted me by email over Usenet for their grubby, :-) profit motivated, commercial purposes. I'm sure this is extremely common on the net. You should also realize that my company and many others on the net benefit commercially any time we pull source code off the net that saves us time and/or development costs. > > I agree with you 100%. This is blatent commercial usage of the net So what's, new, unusual, or terrible about that. This is a Capitalist society. > (as well as attempted emotional blackmail for those of you who ^^^^^^^^^ Blackmail? Is there coercion or a threat in the posting? No! The author was only begging for money. He isn't selling you the software since he's already given you a copy. Nor can he compel you to pay. Shareware is a pipe dream as the name of his company implies. Earlier this year, some one posted the results of a survey of shareware authors. Almost none of them made any money. This should not be surprising. Shareware is the wrong way to market software. You cannot make money on software or any other product by giving away a zillion copies to anyone who wants it and asking for the money later. Why should anyone with a copy of shareware send money to the author? The recipient already has what he wants. Moral arguements will not induce most people to part with their money to pay for something they already have. > > Sorry to post this here; do we need an alt.sources.d? No, posting your complaint in alt.flame would have been wiser. If I were one of the paranoid types that infest the dark corners of the net I might accuse the moderator of comp.sources.unix of trying to start a flame war in alt.sources to make his own moderated newsgroup look good by comparison. But I would never make such a base accusation. I'm sure your motives were pure. Look, Rich, you have your own moderated sources group on the main part of the net in which you can apply your standards as to what should and shouldn't be posted to a sources group. Do you really have to try and extend your standards to the alt subnet? I thought one of the reasons alt.sources was created was that many people objected to moderated source groups like yours where a moderator would impose some standards as to what could be posted. If there is going to be an unmoderated sources group on the alt net then then it's inevitable that someone will post shareware in it. There's no way to stop this except to make alt.sources moderated. Moderating alt.sources would destroy its raison d'etre. Another reason given for your moderated source group is that there was too much discussion in sources groups. So what do you do? Start a discussion in a sources group! FRED is the first posting I've seen in alt.sources that looks interesting enough to pull off and try. If it works and I like it, I will do what I've done with all the other shareware I have. I won't send the author one thin dime. I yield the soapbox to the next raving loony. -- work phone 1-301-984-3636 home phone 1-301-386-2138 {grebyn, decuac, paisano}!macom1!coldbeer!roth