Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!hoptoad!amdcad!pyramid!lll-winken!ncsuvx!uwmcsd1!marque!ddsw1!karl From: karl@ddsw1.UUCP Newsgroups: alt.flame Subject: Re: Crime notes (was: Nothing to do with Gun Nuts) Message-ID: <286@ddsw1.UUCP> Date: Tue, 27-Oct-87 18:39:00 EST Article-I.D.: ddsw1.286 Posted: Tue Oct 27 18:39:00 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 31-Oct-87 11:35:40 EST References: <21300@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <3144@bellcore.bellcore.com> <21354@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <14836@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) Distribution: na Organization: Traveller's Aid, Mundelein, IL Lines: 79 In article <14836@bu-cs.BU.EDU> madd@bucsb.bu.edu writes: >In article <21354@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> jwl@ernie.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (James Wilbur Lewis) writes: >>In article <3144@bellcore.bellcore.com> tr@wind.UUCP (tom reingold) writes: >>More importantly, the people who are victimized by drug addicts could >>be considered to be victims of DRUG LAWS, not drugs! Tobacco is more >>addictive than heroin, yet no one is forced to steal to support a nicotine >>habit; cigarettes are legal, and cheap. Heroin and cocaine would be cheap >>if they were legal, and addicts wouldn't need to steal to support their >>habits. Yep... see below... >Woah! Hold it. Cigarettes kill people, true. Generally it only >kills THEM. It almost never affects their decisions except that >instead of buying a turkey for dinner they may get a TV dinner and a >carton of cigarettes. > >Cocaine? Heroin? Imagine if they were cheap. Just imagine it for a >minute. For my example, I'm going to use cocaine because I happen to ^^^^^^^ >know a lot more about that than I do about heroin. Now my little >brother walks down to the local drugstore and buys himself a hit (Large 'slighty inflammable' remainder omitted, in which 'madd' claims that legalizing coccaine will increase the crime rate). Well, good thing you *didn't* use heroin for an example - you'd be dead wrong about the effects and outcome. Interetingly enough, heroin causes very little actual physical damage - almost certainly less than Cigarettes. People do not die from heroin, unless they overdose or get some stuff which is cut with something that is less than reasonable (ie: strychnine). They *do* die from a lack of supply, though. Not quite the same thing. Also, one should note that few heroin addicts cause problems for society while they have a supply. In fact, you could be working with an addict and have no idea at all. I have known *several* heroin addicts, in fact, one of my better friends during college was one. He had been hooked at the time for more than 20 YEARS -- and I had *no idea* until he admitted it to me! This person held down a job, was generally peaceful like you and me, and had few if any physical problems which could be called 'related' to his use of the drug. And yes, people -- he was *hooked*, and good. Had tried to get off the stuff many times, and failed. I can't advocate the use of heroin, for many other reasons, the best of which is that the drug is more powerful than you are -- and is VERY addictive. While I've never tried it, they say once you do you'll always want it again. That kind of power I can do without, thank you.... BUT -- it certainly doesn't warrant making it illegal. I always thought the purpose of laws was to protect 'society', in other words the 'random person'. I had an interesting conversation with a Vice-squad (read: narc) officer a couple of years ago (I'd name him but then they'd probably come and beat down my door, arrest me for something, etc). I asked him what his justification was for doing what he did -- basically tossing sane and non-violent people in jail for what was essentially a victimless crime. He started in on how bad drugs were for you. I asked him if he smoked cigs -- he said 'yes'. I then asked him why he was busting heroin users and dealers, while their drug of choice was *less* harmful to health and society *in and of itself* (discounting that the legal status of the drug engenders violence, etc.) than the cigs he smoked every day.... At that point he retreated to "It's just my job, you know..." Nice way to rationalize taking a persons' liberty & property -- not because of any HARM that person caused, but just because "it's my job". One has to wonder just *why* these laws stay on the books... couldn't be because a whole bunch of people would be out of work without them, could it? -- Karl Denninger UUCP : ...ihnp4!ddsw1!karl -- Karl Denninger UUCP : ...ihnp4!ddsw1!karl Macro Computer Solutions Dial : +1 (312) 566-8909 (300-1200) "Quality solutions at a fair price" Voice: +1 (312) 566-8910 (24 hrs)