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From: rshu@zodiac.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Subject: Re: A Decent Environment. Where is it? (some flame, some advice)
Message-ID: <8710301944.AA17276@ADS.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 30-Oct-87 14:44:09 EST
Article-I.D.: ADS.8710301944.AA17276
Posted: Fri Oct 30 14:44:09 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 4-Nov-87 23:15:07 EST
References: <21493@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Sender: rshu@zodiac.UUCP
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mt. View, CA (415) 941-3912
Lines: 69

In article <21493@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> you write:
>I've been using Lucid Common Lisp + Portable Common Loops + X version 10
>on Sun 3/50 and Sun 3/160 hardware, and I am very unhappy with the system.
>

No kidding.

>If anyone has any advise, or can tell me how to get software to ameliorate
>some of my problems, I would truly appreciate it.
>

So would I.  My advice is buy a *REAL* Lisp Machine (i.e. Symbolics)

>(I'm having problems with Lucid's built-in mini-emacs, but if I run
>lucid under real emacs, this problem makes it impossible to send a
>complete function definition to Lucid.)
>

Sorry for the flipness of this reply.  I have also been struggling with
the SUN environment (FRANZ and GNUEMACS) and I ***HATE*** it.  Where the
#$#%@@ is the window inspector, the flavor examiner, etc. 

Seriously, I find that using Gnuemacs' inferior lisp mode (aptly named when
referring to Franz or Lucid) to communicate to Franz is marginally
acceptable.  I make my Emacstool window as wide as the entire screen and
almost as tall and then split it in two using c-x 5.  I then do a 
M-x run-lisp (I've modified the emacs variable "inferior-lisp-program"
so that run-lisp runs Franz instead of Lucid).  Now I can cut and paste from
either the Lisp buffer or any other buffer.  I use C-m-x to send function
definitions from gnuemacs to the inferior-lisp buffer.  I haven't sent
very large functions but Franz seems to be reading a temp file so my
guess is that there shouldn't be any size limitation.

By the way, make sure to use Emacstool so that Emacs will know about
the mouse.  I find Gnuemacs enticing because the source is available.
I haven't hacked the sources much yet but the fact that I can makes a
big difference.  After working in Symbolics Release 6 for two years,
I'm spoiled by the availability of source code.  Too bad Symbolics is
becoming secretive.  I'm beginning to think that Stallman and the Free
Software Foundation are not so bonkers after all.  But that's the
topic for a different flame.


>
>----------------
>I'm not asking for much, just a bare minimum of programmer's tools
>for doing serious lisp programming on a workstation.

Clearly, you're asking for more than most computer manufacturer's are
willing to deliver.  Pity the poor programmers of conventional languages
who don't even EXPECT this level of support, let alone get it.
Once again, buy a Symbolics.  (Maybe, just maybe, Sun's SPE will be an
acceptable improvement whenever it shows up).

>
>--- David Phillip Oster            --A Sun 3/60 makes a poor Macintosh II.
>Arpa: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu --A Macintosh II makes a poor Sun 3/60.

Neither even qualifies as a poor Symbolics.



-- 


Richard F. Shu

Today, the Fulda Gap.
Tomorrow, the world.