Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!mcvax!enea!kuling!jonasf
From: jonasf@kuling.UUCP (Jonas Flygare )
Newsgroups: comp.sources.d
Subject: Re: v11INF3:  Poll on copyrights
Message-ID: <531@kuling.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 21-Oct-87 21:54:14 EST
Article-I.D.: kuling.531
Posted: Wed Oct 21 21:54:14 1987
Date-Received: Tue, 27-Oct-87 00:50:51 EST
References: <4899@ncoast.UUCP> <31209@sun.uucp> <31218@sun.uucp> <31219@sun.uucp>
Reply-To: jonasf@kuling.UUCP (Jonas Flygare )
Organization: Dep. of Computer Systems, Upsala University, Sweden
Lines: 60

In article <31219@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
>
>This is unutterable bulloney. 
>
>First, there is a law against stealing cars. There is also a law against
>stealing copyrighted software. If you feel that you are above one, there is
>no way you can claim that we aren't just as far above the other. Both are
>theft. Plain and simple. Theft.
>
>Second, are you claiming that if I steal your car and return it before you
>need it I have committed no crime? That's your implication.
>
>>As has been pointed out by others, software is
>>unlike physical objects in that it can be copied indefinitely with no
>>degradation, and at no cost.  If I post software to the net, nothing
>>Root Boy does to it will affect my subsequent enjoyment of it.
>
>What about things like intrinsic value? If you steal my software and ignore
>its legal and binding restrictions, what does that do to the worth of
>software? I may still have my copy, but it isn't worth anything anymore.
>
>Theft is theft. If you break the law, you break the law. You can rationalize
>all you want, but the bottom line is that you are a thief.

Ah, I see this debate a couple of times... I might as well throw some more
kindlings on the fire.. ;-)  I generally tend to agree with what you say,
*but* there is also a question of the programmers/companys having some 
obligations to the customer.. I have seen several examples of ridiculously
overpriced programs, and programs being packed as to make them look like
they can handle really difficult things (sorry for being so vague here)
which they can, *if* you buy the upgrading for lots of $$$...
I can understand someone having bought an expensive program, starting to 
do some pirating. Also, I can understand the want to test the program.
This form of pirating I don't really mind.. Let me explain why. If I get a 
copy of a nice program, I am handicapped in at least three ways.
1) Lack of manuals. This can be a real pain.
2) Lack of support
3) Inability to use the program for developing.

As long as we are talking games, I guess only point 1 & 2 applies.
And systematic pirating of games *is* really troublesome for the 
company making them. The laws are really needed.
But, regarding tools etc, I for one will *not* buy a program without 
either hearing from people whom i judge trustworthy, or having a demo-copy.
Some companies realize this, and distribute demo-disks, with for example the
save functions removed. That is excellent! If they don't I can usually get a
copy from some friend, try it out, and if I like it, go out and buy it.
If I don't disks are re-formatted for something more useful.

Finally, Copyright laws are different in different countries.. Here in Sweden 
pirating was outlawed just some year(s?) ago. The story goes along the lines 
that the authorities caught someone advertising copies obviously pirated.
They could prove that he had copied both games and spreadsheet programs.
The court ruled that the copying of the games was a felony, but copying the
spreadsheet programs was not, due to their lack of artistic value.
Which just proves what I known all along... Its a mad, mad, mad world.. ;-)

>chuq
>Chuq Von Rospach					chuq@sun.COM
>Editor, OtherRealms					Delphi: CHUQ