Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!hao!gatech!mcnc!rutgers!cbmvax!andy
From: andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: upgrades and standards, this time without the flames
Message-ID: <2632@cbmvax.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 27-Oct-87 10:26:31 EST
Article-I.D.: cbmvax.2632
Posted: Tue Oct 27 10:26:31 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 30-Oct-87 05:11:57 EST
References: <5596@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <and> <lots> <more> <5634@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 91

In article <5634@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) writes:
>
>This time, I'm not going to vent steam at CBM. I'm going to explain in
>simple words what bothers me about what they are doing. But first -
>
>
>In other words, I got really nervous. So nervous, in fact, that I
>decided that $1000 to get a machine that wasn't gong to be "orphaned
>by desertion" was probably worth it. If I could move my memory to the
>A2000, I'd upgrade. Much as I detest the packaging on the A2000, I'd
>consider it worth it to avoid whatever CBM has in mind.
>
>Except CBM changed the form factor, so the expansion memory that I've
>already bought twice won't work. Makes it much less attractive.

I could *swear* the net hashed this out at great length when we
announced the new form factor, around September 1986.  Mike,
where were you ?

>
>I told some people who had being thinking about an Amiga about the
>form factor change, and got back the reply "So CBM still has a death
>wish, huh?" Haven't heard since from them about an Amiga.
>
>I said some nasty things about CBM because of that form factor change.

What I always said was that this time Commodore was putting money into
the form factor, so it was much less likely to change again.
Surprisingly, many people accept that logic :-)

>Hold on a second? Bus adapters? What's that?

You mean, like the 2000-and-1 ?
You know, the thing of Perry's that lets you plug both Zorro I and
Zorro II cards into an A1000 ?

And, once again, I repeat: It is possible to plug both types of
cards into an A1000 'bare' Zorro box (just remove the front)

>Basically, CBM made two serious mistakes with the A2000 and the A500.
>On the A500, they moved the expansion slot so that A1000 expansion
>would have hell working with it. 

Still works the same, though.

>On the A2000, they failed to provide
>an expansion slot. Sure, the internal bus is nice. But there's no way
>to put (expensive) old cards into it.

Unless you run a ribbon cable over to a Zorro I box.

>
>It would have been *much* nicer to your customers to forget the
>upgrade offer (I expect that the A2000 will be available for the $1300
>price people are paying for one shortly, anyway), make it possible to
>use A1000 SOTS cards on the A2000, and announce (then) that the next
>generation of machines wouldn't have any SOTS support. 

I strongly disagree.  Some SOTS products have given Amiga owners
(and us) no end of trouble.  Because they do violate Zorro specs.
Automatically.  (A very few have been carefully enough designed
so they work well;  But it seems to be non-trivial to design a
SOTS box (which violates Zorro spec)  and works well.

>Making the A500
>work with A1000 products would have left A500 buyers a reasonable
>upgrade path to the A2000.
>

I added a stand to my A500, and was able to plug a 2 Meg SOTS on
fairly easily. (Add a bigger power supply if you try it at home :-) )

>	<mike

Bottom line mike...there are many ways for you to have it all.
(None may be acceptable to you; but there *are* a number of ways
to do what you want)

		andy

(I *still* can't believe this is when the form factor change hit home
for you!)
-- 
andy finkel		{ihnp4|seismo|allegra}!cbmvax!andy 
Commodore-Amiga, Inc.

"Interfere?  Of course we'll interfere.  Always do what you're best at,
 I always say."

Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.