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From: stever@videovax.UUCP
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: An interesting message from SECURITY-DIGEST@RUTGERS
Message-ID: <4650@videovax.Tek.COM>
Date: Wed, 28-Oct-87 05:19:14 EST
Article-I.D.: videovax.4650
Posted: Wed Oct 28 05:19:14 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 31-Oct-87 04:38:14 EST
References: <7449@reed.UUCP> <8746@utzoo.UUCP> <471@auscso.UUCP>
Reply-To: stever@videovax.Tek.COM (Steven E. Rice, P.E.)
Organization: Tektronix Television Systems, Beaverton, Oregon
Lines: 45
Keywords: NSA, DES, STU-III

In article <3453@sol.ARPA>, Mark Fulk (fulk@cs.rochester.edu) writes:

>                 . . .  The philosophy of the ``Founding Fathers'' was that
> of the Enlightenment; they read and approved of Voltaire, Rousseau, and
> Locke.  . . .  In fact, one of the primary motivations for the creation
> of the Constitution was a belief in the ultimate perfectability of
> humankind and its institutions.  . . .

Unfortunately, Mark seems to be a victim of revisionist history.  There
is no historical justification for his statements.  (I composed a reply
which has all the details, but it doesn't belong on sci.crypt.  Send me
mail if you want a copy.)

There is something that needs to be said on sci.crypt, however, as it has
a direct bearing on the periodic rash of messages that proclaim "it isn't
constitutional for the government to listen to my phone."  The Founding
Fathers held that God endows us with our rights:

     We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
     equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain
     unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the
     pursuit of Happiness.

On the other hand, many today would agree with Supreme Court Justice
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. (1841-1935), who wrote:

     I see no reason for attributing to man a significance
     different in kind from that which belongs to a baboon
     or a grain of sand.

Holmes also said, "The Constitution is what the judges say it is."  His
view was later echoed by Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, who
said, "It is they [the Supreme Court justices] who speak and not the
Constitution."

If we have a significance equal to that of a baboon or a grain of sand,
then certainly a Supreme Court that follows the lead of Holmes and
Frankfurter will permit our phones to be wiretapped.  And it's completely
constitutional (Holmes said so. . .).

					Steve Rice

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