Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!hoptoad!amdcad!decwrl!ucbvax!jade!violet.berkeley.edu!skyler From: skyler@violet.berkeley.edu.UUCP Newsgroups: alt.flame Subject: Why the Rhonda existence question matters. Message-ID: <6021@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Sat, 21-Nov-87 17:34:24 EST Article-I.D.: jade.6021 Posted: Sat Nov 21 17:34:24 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Nov-87 07:20:46 EST References: <5909@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <1842@chinet.UUCP> Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: skyler@violet.berkeley.edu.UUCP () Lines: 73 Keywords: Rhonda refuses to provide support for her accusations In article <1875@chinet.UUCP> rhonda@chinet.UUCP (Rhonda Scribner) writes: >In article <5980@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>, skyler@violet.berkeley.edu writes: >>You're still evading it, my dear. Either put up or shut up. Either >>prove you exist or quit insisting other people don't exist. You have >>heard from a variety of people that have met Mark. Mike has seen the >>id. No one has met you. >Well, as I've already said many times, these are simply lies, outrageous lies. There is a problem with your pronoun reference. I will try to make the issue clearer for everybody. 1) Mark Ethan Smith once said that Rhonda was a hoax, that Rhonda was a man claiming to be a woman. 2) Rhonda has said that this accusation was a lie, but Rhonda has never provided any counter-evidence. 3) Rhonda has said that Mark Ethan Smith is a hoax. S/he has ONE and only ONE piece of evidence for this assertion. Rhonda has said that s/he contacted someone who contacted someone at an old address and that person did not know Mike Robinson or me. This is Rhonda's only evidence but Rhonda did not make clear that the person living at the address has the name of Mark Ethan Smith. (Perhaps Mark has moved.) a) Rhonda has said that people who are obnoxious and engage in name- calling should be censored from the net. S/he has called me a lying son of a bitch. That is name calling and it is also completely unfounded because Rhonda has refused to let me and Mike and Mark prove that there is not a hoax while Rhonda has refused to prove s/he is not a hoax. >These people seem to think that by repeating them enough, claiming again and >again that they HAVE met Mark Ethan Smith, the lies will be believed. I know We have offered to prove it. You have refused. 4) What we have here is a situation described by Thomas McCarthy in _The Critical Theory of Jurgen Habermas_. (Page 298, if anyone is interested.) Consensus is no less endangered if one of the interacting parties questions the intentions of the other (for example, by accusing him of lying, deceiving, misleading, pretending.) If communication is to continue on a consensual basis, mutual trust must be restored in the course of further interaction as the good faith of each party becomes apparent through assurances, consistency of action, readiness to draw, accept accept and act on consequences, willingness to assume implied responsibilities and obligations, and so forth. Finally, the consensual basis of communication if disrupted if the party's right to perform the speech act he performs is called into question, on the ground, for example, that his role or status does not entitle him to do so, or that this act contravene accepted norms or conventions, fall outside established relational patterns, are inconsistent with recognized values. Rhonda has accused me, Mike, and Mark of lying and pretending. Rhonda has been accused of the same. We have attempted to make assurances. They have not worked. Our right to perform the speech act has been called into question. What we have to do is to assume responsibilities which are part of speaking. Habermas identifies those as demonstrating one has those rights and/or providing evidence to support one's claims. Mike, Mark, and I claim to exist and claim not to be part of a hoax. We are willing to prove that any time Rhonda is willing to take up the same responsibilities. ANY TIME. And none of us had anything to do with the bitch@chinet hoax. Finally, if Rhonda is too scared to take up those obligations, then s/he should immediately post an apology for calling me a lying son of a bitch. -skyler usenet ucbvax!jade!violet!skyler arpa skyler@violet.berkeley.edu