Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!hoptoad!amdcad!decwrl!ucbvax!dewey.soe.berkeley.edu!robinson From: robinson@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP Newsgroups: alt.flame Subject: Re: MESmith, Larry Lippman and sanity. Message-ID: <21910@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Mon, 23-Nov-87 03:14:49 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.21910 Posted: Mon Nov 23 03:14:49 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Nov-87 21:27:30 EST References: <281@snark.UUCP> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: robinson@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (Michael Robinson) Organization: School of Education, UC-Berkeley Lines: 173 Keywords: just getting warmed up Summary: Michael Robinson turns to the dark side. In article <281@snark.UUCP> eric@snark.UUCP (Eric S. Raymond) writes: > >Yes, I'm sure Soviet-style abuse of psychiatry happens here. I have not >myself been a victim of abusive drugging or the like, but I was considered >"emotionally maladjusted" as a kid and required to deal with a bunch of Fantastic. Considered "emotionally maladjusted" as a kid, and now considered "a complete asshole" as an adult. What a shame. >psychiatrists too wrapped up in their theories and labels to see that my >problem was rooted in *reality* -- the reality of being handicapped, physically >small, and too bright for my peers. You know, that kind of backround could cripple someone's sense of social decorum for life. >I got a lot of utterly useless advice and >enormous pressure to conform. (I had a *miserable* childhood. I like being an >adult *much* better). Yes, abuse is easy for me to believe. So now that you're a big boy, you can dish out utterly useless advice and enormous pressure to conform. Boy it sure is fun being a grownup, especially if you don't have to grow up to do it. >I'm smarter than most psychiatrists. And maybe even a bit more sensitive than the ones that give electroshock to anorexics. >I learned a lot of psychology, eventually >healed my own wounds (mostly -- there are some that still ache on rainy days) >and am nowadays a fairly competent lay therapist and counsellor myself. Maybe you should look into learning a lot of brain surgery. I think there may be some more serious defects for you to work on in your spare time. A mirror and an X-acto knife and you'll be all set. >Which brings me to my second point. It is my considered opinion that MESmith >is as crazy as a bedbug. Considered opinion? You've given this much consideration, have you? For the life of me I can't find "crazy as a bedbug" in DSMIII. Maybe you should go back to considering your navel. >"His" own postings are rife with classic symptoms of >paranoia and systematic delusionary thinking. And yours is rife with symptoms of impacted rectal-cranial inversion. In my considered opinion. >I regard the poisonous hatred >diplayed in many of them as pathological, and suspect that at least some of >the articles Mr. Lippman quoted were written during what a clinician would >describe as psychotic episodes. Maybe the poisonous hatred stems from an endless procession of assholes like yourself who are too lacking in some part of their central nervous system, be it brain, spine or nerve, to listen to what he has to say, and simply dismiss him for what he is. I certainly can appreciate it. I'm beginning to develop a bit of a poisonous hatred myself. As for as your suspicions of psychosis go, you can cram them up your maladjusted ass. Either have the guts to come right out and commit libel, or keep your considered and unlicensed nose out of potentially litigous crevices. >I think MESmith is a very sick human. At least he's made it that far. Seems to me you still have quite a bit of work to do on getting even the human part right. >Maybe it's sexist oppression that made >"him" that way, or maybe it's a neurotransmitter imbalance. I'd guess probably >both -- severe emotional stress reacting on a personality not biochemically >equipped to handle it. Is that your considered neurophysiological opinion as well? You must be some sort of full-blown psychological idiot savant. Or a complete asshole. >I won't bet that I wouldn't be just as crazy myself >if I'd had to deal with sexism on top of everything else in my childhood. Yeah, you were lucky. You only ended up being a self-righteous, maladjusted, pontificating asshole. But at least you're sane. >The truly sad part is that there is little that can be done for such people. My understanding is that frontal lobotomy has a much higher success rate at curing assholes than curing psychotics. Maybe you ought to go learn a lot about lobotomies. >The 'talking cure', to put it bluntly, doesn't work -- it's only good for >people with mild functional disorders (neuroses and the like) Not only that, but research has shown that the "talking cure" can actually exacerbate the offensiveness of a chronic asshole. The best course of action in extreme cases is for them just to keep their mouth shut. >Consequently, mental institutions are still essentially lockups for people >that society judges too dangerous to be let loose, and there are no real >grounds in the current understanding of mental pathology for believing this >will change. Not even with psychological idiot savants like you running around? What a shame. >The *last* place I'd want to see MESmith is in a psycho ward -- >it would probably make "him" worse. You sure are one enlightened asshole, aren't you. I guess that comes from being smarter than most psychiatrists, doesn't it. >I, speaking as a healer, feel that MESmith's self- >reconciliation would be best served by treating her with such sympathy and >respect, but also by expecting of her the same standards of elementary courtesy >that we expect from other people. Just out of curiousity, is that spoken ex cathedra, Mister pontificating lay therapist? Can we consider this an unlicensed diagnosis and prescription? And as for this "speaking as a healer" crap, I think you are on mighty thin ice accusing anyone else of being out of touch with reality. >But I don't believe that illness confers any special license, either. Well, I don't believe that being an asshole confers any special license, either. Your bullshit is twice as inappropriate and twice as unwelcome. >The kind >of screaming abuse and corrosive insult MESmith regularly engages in are simply >outside the rules of the net.game and more than anyone should defend regardless >of source. The kind of insidious and corrosive attacks launched by armchair mind-tyrants is simply outside the rules of the net.game, and you, asshole, are being penalized fifteen yards and loss of down. If you have something constructive and relevant to contribute TO THE DISCUSSION AT HAND, you may do so. But ad hominem attacks are no less so for being couched in amateur psycho-babble. >The distinction I'm trying to make here is that I think MESmith, insane or >not, is OK; but "his" *behavior*, insanity-caused or not, is unacceptable -- Well, at this point, it should be clear that I find your behavior unacceptable, but let me also throw in that I think you, asshole or not, are an offense to humanity. >[BTW: I accept the risk that MESmith will now misunderstand all of this, > mistakenly conclude that I am a sexist-pig-enemy and flame *me*...] I think Mark's analysis was quite accurate. I missed your article because it was one of those cross-posted things my KILL file likes to eat. In conversation with Mark, he mentioned that yet another asshole was playing doctor on the net, but that he wasn't going to bother to respond to it. Imagine my surprise when I went looking for it. The two most common net putdowns have got to be "such-and-such has got to be an AI project" and "such-and-such has got to be psychotic/neurotic/emotionally disturbed/ poor self-image/crazy as a bedbug, and we should all be nice to them, but there is no reason to take them seriously." Well, buddy, your article just happened to be n+1 of the latter. Better luck next time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Robinson USENET: ucbvax!ernie!robinson ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu