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From: rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik)
Newsgroups: comp.ai,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Language Learning
Message-ID: <2819@bcsaic.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 19-Nov-87 11:37:34 EST
Article-I.D.: bcsaic.2819
Posted: Thu Nov 19 11:37:34 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 22-Nov-87 14:00:09 EST
References: <8986@shemp.UCLA.EDU> <1125@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <1966@uwmacc.UUCP> <2755@bcsaic.UUCP> <1413@houdi.UUCP>
Reply-To: rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik)
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle
Lines: 39
Keywords: Goal Based
Summary: Alternatives to crystallization lack plausibility
Xref: mnetor comp.ai:1146 sci.lang:1705

In article <1413@houdi.UUCP> marty1@houdi.UUCP (M.BRILLIANT) writes:

>Do we recall why I mentioned identity crisis, and why another
>contributor mentioned having less time as you grow older?  Because
>somebody suggested that if language learning becomes harder at puberty,
>it must be because of a crystallization process.  If other plausible
>reasons exist, we can't immediately conclude that there is a
>crystallization.
>
Sorry to have misunderstood your wording on the difference between
phonological acquisition and "language acquisition".  Perhaps I should
clarify my meaning as well.  Both adults and children can "acquire" a
target language.  The problem is that adults can't "master" foreign
languages (i.e. learn to speak with undetectable accents).  The
threshold for phonology is puberty, and the threshold for syntax is
(less clearly) post-adolescence.  The issue, as you put it, is
plausibility.

ADULTS-ARE-TOO-BUSY argument.  Most children don't hold down full-time
jobs, but those who do still acquire language effortlessly.  We are not
talking about rote-learning here.  Children acquire language by virtue
of being exposed to it.  No amount of free time or exposure seems to 
give adults mastery over a foreign language.

IDENTITY CRISIS argument.  I am not sure how you intend this to work.
All stressful situations affect learning.  The one that we have loosely
termed "identity crisis" strikes different individuals with differing
intensity.  Do foreign accents vary with the severity of one's "identity
crisis"?  No such correlation has ever been found, although we do know
that foreign accents correlate to biological maturation.

>If you want to prove crystallization, either you need positive evidence
>of crystallization, or you have to disprove all possible alternatives.
>
I am not sure what you regard as "positive evidence", but it certainly 
doesn't make any of the "alternatives" look better.  I pour goose-gander
sauce all over your identity crisis argument.  As for "disproving all
possible alternatives", I am less demanding.  I would only require that
you disprove all "plausible alternatives".  So far, there aren't any.