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From: lamaster@pioneer.arpa (Hugh LaMaster)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Five-year plan (was What is Computer Science?)
Message-ID: <3447@ames.arpa>
Date: Thu, 19-Nov-87 12:25:14 EST
Article-I.D.: ames.3447
Posted: Thu Nov 19 12:25:14 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 22-Nov-87 01:36:07 EST
References: <665@hubcap.UUCP> <191@wright.EDU>
Sender: usenet@ames.arpa
Reply-To: lamaster@ames.UUCP (Hugh LaMaster)
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif.
Lines: 65

In article <191@wright.EDU> jsloan@wright.EDU (John Sloan) writes:

>
>I think most of us would agree that a five year program is a good idea.
>Indeed, professional engineering schools have done it, with success.
>Some problems:

I agree with all of this.  I think that the solution is to have separate
Computer Science and Software Engineering programs.  Computer Science is
logically part of the same school as Mathematics, Physics, and Applied
Mathematics, Statistics, etc.  (Letters and Sciences, or some such.)
Software Engineering is logically part of the engineering school.  Programming
is a lower division prerequisite to either school, as is a basic course in
Computer Science.  I think that this division will not only help solve the
political problem described below, but will help students make a clearer
choice about what their choices of majors signify.

>
>[1] Identifying with the policies of a professional engineering school
>does not sit well with many CS faculty, who identify mostly with the
>disciplines of math and traditional sciences. This caused a bit of a
>rift when our Department was moved from the College of Math and Science
>to the College of Engineering. Tenure questions are a sticky issue,

>
>[2] CS programs that move to a five year program will compete with
>CS programs that have a four year program. Can they compete
>successfully? Dunno. When my wife went to med school, she attended a

If other programs in the engineering school also have five year programs
(especially EE) then I think there will not be a problem.  One way to make
sure that these programs are sufficiently attractive to students is to make a
student internship an integral part of the program between the fourth and
fifth year.  Most engineering students have been told of the merits of such
internships, and will probably find the complete program very attractive, even
though it does take longer.

>
>I agree completely. Five year programs are the answer. Its going to take
>some cultural adjustment for them to be accepted.
>John Sloan                     Wright State University Research Center
>jsloan@SPOTS.Wright.Edu       3171 Research Blvd., Kettering, OH 45420
>...!cbosgd!wright!jsloan               (513) 259-1384   (513) 873-2491

This discussion has reminded me of another confusion in engineering programs,
and that is regarding the place of Computer Engineering.  Some programs
include hardware and software engineering in a Computer Engineering program,
others separate out Software Engineering and include computer engineering as
part of the digital hardware part of Electrical Engineering.  One of the
disadvantages of the latter approach is that students must spend extra time
learning about electromechanical machinery, and therefore less time on digital
hardware. 

Assuming a five year engineering program, what is the correct way to split up
Electrical Engineering, Digital Hardware Engineering, and Software Engineering?




  Hugh LaMaster, m/s 233-9,  UUCP {topaz,lll-crg,ucbvax}!
  NASA Ames Research Center                ames!pioneer!lamaster
  Moffett Field, CA 94035    ARPA lamaster@ames-pioneer.arpa
  Phone:  (415)694-6117      ARPA lamaster@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov

(Disclaimer: "All opinions solely the author'sJanJanJailaila46an