Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!yetti!unicus!craig From: craig@unicus.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: CBM and upgrade paths Message-ID: <1559@unicus.UUCP> Date: Wed, 11-Nov-87 01:10:59 EST Article-I.D.: unicus.1559 Posted: Wed Nov 11 01:10:59 1987 Date-Received: Fri, 13-Nov-87 06:18:05 EST References: <8711040542.AA29099@violet.berkeley.edu> <2696@cbmvax.UUCP> Reply-To: craig@unicus.UUCP (Craig D. Hubley) Organization: Unicus Software Inc., Toronto, Ont. Lines: 120 Well, maybe now we can more or less wrap up the compatibility debate. andy finkel says: You can use (1) Zorro I and (2) Zorro II on an A500 You can use (3) Zorro I and (4) Zorro II on an A1000 You can use (5) Zorro I and (6) Zorro II on an A2000 I believe it. Now, the question is *how*. These are how I understand the answers: (1) by plugging them in upside down and backwards (annoying, free) (2) a) by buying a 2000-and-1 (convenient, $700+) OR b) by plugging them in normally and covering them in a metal case. (annoying, cheap) (3) by plugging them in normally. (convenient, free) (4) a) by buying a 2000-and-1 (convenient, $700+) OR b) by plugging them in normally and covering them in a metal case. (annoying, cheap) (5) by leaving the cover off. (annoying, free) (6) by plugging them in normally (convenent, free) If any of these are wrong, please correct me publicly so the facts are straight. I will proceed on the assumption they are correct. Now, of these eight DIFFERENT methods and potential sets of problems, (an issue in itself), only (3) and (6) are acceptable to the novice user, and therefore the lowest common denominator. The others are "solder solutions", or very expensive, or have other problems. These problems are *not* necessarily with the form factor. Some (1,2,4) are simply packaging problems. They should be solved by making the following devices available to Amiga users, through Commodore, so that they are guaranteed to be available to *any* user, no matter how far off the beaten track. Hardware manufacturers should sell, them, too. A. An A500 SOTS case that encapsulates one Zorro I or II card, and passes the bus connector through (or not). B. An A1000 SOTS case that encapsulates one Zorro I or II card, and passes the bus connector through. It *must* pass it through. C. An A2000 card that simply passes the bus out and around so that a SOTS can be placed on the side of the A2000. I believe C., or some form of it, is already available for ~$40 from ASDG. This solves problem (5). I believe that was Mike Meyer's objection. A. solves problem (1) and (2a). It lets an A500 owner use any card available and mix-and-match with other SOTS, as many as he dares. B. solves problem (4b). It lets an A1000 owner use any card available and mix-and-match with other SOTS, as many as he dares. Each of these should sell for about US$40 or less. For all the grief they are going to save Commodore and its developers and users and dealers in terms of many potential interfacing problems, multiple FCC approvals, having to find an appropriate version, keeping your upgrade paths alive, and having to keep several different packages in inventory... Commodore should pay people to take it, or at least just give it away free for the asking to any Amiga owner. It really must be distributed by Commodore. All hardware manufacturers should be made aware that they will produce Zorro II cards, only Zorro II cards, and more Zorro II cards until the end of time... developer status should be rescinded for anyone who makes any other SOTS stuff after a certain date. (I mean, let `em make all the weirdo stuff they want, but keep the Zorro II the *only* multiple-expansion-card method there is). ASDG could make and produce it, if they have a mind. After all, they've already done a third of the job. And these are, as I understand, passive devices, and therefore very cheap to produce. Commodore should buy the rights and make sure every expanding A500 owner knows to buy an "Expander" and put cards in it, and not to buy other nonstandard goop, unless he happens to need more than two or three cards, in which case the 2000-and-1 is right there. Likewise for A1000 owners. They can simply buy Zorro II cards like everyone else, and buy (or get free!) a new Expander for each. Such things would probably be very cheap to make. If someone inside Commodore would add up the benefits (in support, goodwill, manpower) versus the costs (about two bucks), they'd do it, or contract ASDG to do it, in short order. They are fools if they don't. But that's just an opinion, albeit a good one. By the way, unless I've missed something, I fail to see why this debate should continue to take up net.bandwidth. The above suggestion is workable and user-friendly and developer-friendly and dealer-friendly and Commodore- friendly. Its the only correct path out of the situation that I can see. "Expand your A500 ? Easy, the `Expander 500' is free with any card you buy. Expand it more ? Get a 2000-and-1 and have a dirt-cheap workstation." "Keeping your A1000 ? Easy, the `Expander 1000' is free with any card you buy. And it plugs into any existing expansion, or the 2000-and-1 for true expandability." "Upgrading to an A2000 ? Easy, the `Expander 2000' is just a few bucks, and you can use any of your A1000 expansions. And they all take up just one single slot. Expand to fill the rest." Well, Perry ? I've even named the damn things for you. :-) Sell Commodore on the idea, if they aren't already, and cut yourself in. On another note, comp.sys.amiga currently costs about twice as much per user to deliver as any other newsgroup. I submit that the attention of the net.gods will be wrathful on us shortly, unless we learn to control our own bandwidth. That means wrapping up debates like this more cleanly. And posting sources and binaries to the appropriate groups. One more thing: If I buy an A2000 Zorro II card (which is $400 cheaper than the A1000 version), how *exactly* would I connect it to my A1000 ? Do I, presently, have to build my own case, as I've assumed above ? Craig Hubley, Unicus Corporation, Toronto, Ont. craig@Unicus.COM (Internet) {uunet!mnetor, utzoo!utcsri}!unicus!craig (dumb uucp) mnetor!unicus!craig@uunet.uu.net (dumb arpa)