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From: daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Wishlist for A3000
Message-ID: <2762@cbmvax.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 13-Nov-87 15:55:22 EST
Article-I.D.: cbmvax.2762
Posted: Fri Nov 13 15:55:22 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 15-Nov-87 11:43:03 EST
References: <5888@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 71

in article <5888@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>, mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer) says:
> Keywords: Commodore A3000 Do it RIGHT!
 
> Probably. On the other hand, the options seem to be:
> 
> 	1) Coming out with a 16 bit A3000 next year. You'd do
> 	*well* to get shot. [and two identical stupid suggestions]

Yes, stupid!  Only PClones can get away with a 16 bit bus on a 32 bit
machine.  Even IBM wasn't foolish enough to go that route.
> 
> 	4) As you suggested, a dual-bus machine, one Zorro ][, one 32
> 	bits wide. Even if you make it "for memory", if you have more
> 	than one slot in it, people will be tempted to market "32-bit"
> 	I/O cards. 

There shouldn't be a problem with a 16/32 bit bus.  It's real easy, from a
hardware point of view, to detect the buswidth of the card in question, and
act accordingly, at the expected bus speed.  I'm real surprised that IBM
never did this with their 8 bit cards on their 32 bit machines, though IBM
has never had a rep for doing things right.

> 	5) Going with a real 32-bit bus. This is the *serious* way to
> 	go. I'd suggest VME, not NuBus. 

They're both TOO slow, especially NuBus.   And VME is far too expensive,
and certainly not upward compatible.

> 	path to SUNs and the like for your customers. 

I don't particularly want customers going to Sun, I'd rather keep them here.
Even Sun had to augment VME to run memory as fast as they wanted it, and 
things like that that are viable on a $10,000 machine aren't viable on a
$2000 machine.  But that's OK, cause I can design a faster bus that's also
cheaper, and also supports old Zorro cards.  You might not like it, but
90% of current Amiga users will, and that's what I'm concerned with.  

> <	If Commodore *ever* sells something as overpriced as the typical
> <	Apple product, we deserve to be shot.
> 
> If Commodore starts designing Amiga without keeping cost strictly in
> mind, they're going to wind up getting creamed by Sun & it's
> competion.

Re-read your posting.  WE understand the last paragraph.  Even though you
wrote it, YOU don't.  Or you never would have suggested the VME bus with
Sun extensions.

> <> P.S. Un*x support would be nice also. (notice I said nice, not req)
> <	No problem.  8-)
> 
> Ah, but *which* Unix? I want MACH! Or maybe V8 (V9?). None of the
> stuff that AT&T employees call Sh*tlix, or that's suffering from
> Berkeley Brain Damage.

But you've already said that you're going to do the Mach port to your
'486 machine which doesn't exist yet, if no one else will port it.  I
really like Mach, but it's not Unix, is it.  Unix is V from AT&T or
BSD4, and you don't like either of these.  So you really don't want
Unix either, do you.

> 	<mike

> I know the world is flat.
> Don't try tell me that it's round.

Ahh, now I understand.  And it's not round, it's roughly spherical.
-- 
Dave Haynie     Commodore-Amiga    Usenet: {ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh
   "The B2000 Guy"              PLINK : D-DAVE H             BIX   : hazy
    "Computers are what happen when you give up sleeping" - Iggy the Cat