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From: schaub@sugar.UUCP (Markus Schaub)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: M2Amiga, some answers.
Message-ID: <1104@sugar.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 22-Nov-87 19:58:42 EST
Article-I.D.: sugar.1104
Posted: Sun Nov 22 19:58:42 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Nov-87 04:44:36 EST
Organization: Sugar Land UNIX - Houston, TX
Lines: 118
Keywords: Modula-2, M2Amiga, Programming, Low Level Features


Sorry, this got long. It answers questions and remarks of several people.

>an interesting nitpick, but the designers of C wanted programmers to be able
>to make calls to the same routine with a varying number of arguments.  This

BUT also a big source for programming errors. Does your C compiler
complain if you call a 3 parameter procedure with just two parameters?
What is the result?  Nothing, strange behaviour or GURUs? How can you
find this bug? Maybe this is no problem for you, it definitely would
be one for me. This is my opinion, DON'T start any war C vs. Modula-2!

>difficult to use Modula-2 on the Amiga because _everything_ is written
>for C programming, most notably the RKM.  Is this problem any different
>for M2Amiga than for TDI?  I'm asking because I liked Pascal, really

We faced this problem, using pointers extensively and playing a lot
with all different kinds of ROM stuff (always with Modula-2, starting
with our PD version (Fish #24)) we managed to get very close to C and the
ROM kernel. This also includes some changes in the code generation
part of the compiler, fuction results or internal representation of
BOOLEAN's etc.  I cannot give any comment on M2Amiga/TDI 'cause I just don't
know a lot about their compiler. To read the RKM, you still need some 
basic knowledge of C.

> Seems to me any cycles are important.  Perhaps not for general
>code, but when it comes to the decision as to weather or not to use
>assembly, this could make a difference.

In M2Amiga we rather optimized the compiler for the Amiga's needs
than going down to assembly. In M2Amiga there are NO parts that are
written in Assembly.

> PS: Matt, have you tried Modula-2?  I know your a C programmer, 
>           and just wondered if you'd given M2 a look.

Play around with the Demo Disk!

>and hide the grungy details in a separate procedure.  My goal, not
>always achieved, is to have the executable code of any procedure fit
>on a single, not too busy screen.

Good programming practice, I fully agree!

>compiler prompts for a new file to compile after having finished
>(or you can give all the file names on the command line in CLI).

If the loading time is longer than compilation time, you have to find
a way to reduce overall time. It is also very easy to write a file
containing all file names (one each line) of the modules of your program
( in correct order) and then call the compiler:
		m2c <compileMyModules
I'll have to write a program to generate these files automatically. (make)

>  Seems like a good solution to me.  I'd like to know more about this
>  $E option.  If it is clean, and relocatable (??) this should work quite

$E- does not produce any entry or exit code for this procedure. No loading
of the global data's address into a register, no allocation of local variables
on stack, no dynamic link and at end not even a RTS. Very usefull for VERY
dirty tricks!

PROCEDURE Sub; (* $E- *)
BEGIN
 invert value in register D1
END Sub;

PROCEDURE Add (* $E-  equal to a label in Assembly *)
BEGIN
 add D0, D1;
 RTS
END Add;

You can call this Assembly programming without leaving the Modula-2 env.
Other options prevent the generation of parameter deallocation code, used
for procedures supplied to the ROM kernel. (Makes them C procedures)

>When will the M2Amiga Source Level Debugger be released?  Will it be
>included in the $195 price?  

$199 intro $249 retail. No not to my knowledge. I really don't know
anything from the business side of the debugger. As soon I know I'll
let you know too. Release Date, last thing I heard was end of the year.

>What libraries are included?

here comes the list: Sorry it is compressed, could look nicer.
Modules (dir)
  Libraries (dir)
sym (dir)
  Arguments.sym      ASCII.sym Conversions.sym    Coroutines.sym
  FFPConversions.sym FFPInOut.sym FileMessage.sym    FileNames.sym
  FileSystem.sym     Heap.sym InOut.sym   LongRealConversions.sym
  LongRealInOut.sym  MathLib0.sym MathLibLong.sym    RandomNumber.sym
  RealConversions.sym	RealInOut.sym Scan.sym    Storage.sym
  Strings.sym Terminal.sym Windows.sym 
 obj (dir)
 ... object files for these libraries if they have one (ASCII does not!) ...
System (dir)
 sym (dir)
  Arts.sym    MathFFP.sym MathIEEEDoubBas.sym	MathREAL.sym
Interfaces (dir)
 sym (dir)
  Audio.sym   BootBlock.sym Clipboard.sym      Console.sym
  ConUnit.sym DiskFont.sym Dos.sym     Exec.sym
  ExecSupport.sym    Expansion.sym GamePort.sym	GfxMacros.sym
  Graphics.sym	Hardware.sym Icon.sym    Input.sym
  InputEvent.sym     Intuition.sym Keyboard.sym	KeyMap.sym
  Layers.sym  MathTrans.sym Narrator.sym	Parallel.sym
  Printer.sym PrtBase.sym Resources.sym      Serial.sym
  Timer.sym   TrackDisk.sym Translator.sym     Workbench.sym

Hope that answers most of your questions!
-- 
     //	Markus Schaub		uunet!nuchat!sugar!schaub      (713) 523 8422
    //	M2Amiga Developer	trying to get back the money I  paid  for  my
\\ //				Amiga by selling a few M2Amiga.
 \X/	c/o Interface Technologies Corp, 3336 Richmond #323, Houston Tx 77098