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From: mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: CBM and upgrade paths
Message-ID: <5807@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 6-Nov-87 22:03:09 EST
Article-I.D.: jade.5807
Posted: Fri Nov  6 22:03:09 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 8-Nov-87 23:42:26 EST
References: <8711040542.AA29099@violet.berkeley.edu> <2696@cbmvax.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@jade.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: mwm@eris.BERKELEY.EDU (Mike (My watch has windows) Meyer)
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica
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In article <2696@cbmvax.UUCP> andy@cbmvax.UUCP (Andy Finkel) writes:

A mostly reasonable response, but...

<>Let's get to the important thing first. I claimed that a posting from
<>a CBM employee asking people to contemplate what the A1000->A2000
<>upgrade deal means was scary, because so contemplating leads to the
<>conclusion that CBM is going to do something *truly* nasty to A1000
<>owners.

He didn't answer the above comment.

<	First, I still can't get over that you're flaming about it
<now, over a year after it was announced.  Anyway...

Becuase I had chosen to ignore it (and the A2000) until CBM started
the upgrade deal. Which did all kinds of nasty things to the A1000
expansion market. While I can buy get an A2000 for as little as $800,
none of the dealers I called (10 or so) could sell me a disk
controller for an A1000. Still got some to try, though.

<I'm not speculating here...I've personally done it.  Now, you
<may dislike the methods used to connect.

Apparently a method involving cabling to a Zorro I card was posted,
and the article never got here. That's actually reasonable.

<(I don't like leaving the cover off the A2000 either)  But the
<point is, there *is* an expansion path of sorts.  It shouldn't
<matter to you that the path depends on the efforts of 3rd party
<hardware vendors like Microbotics or ASDG.

It doesn't - except for what it coming from third parties tells me
about CBM as a company.

[Long description of the advantages of the A2000 deleted.]

<>Most of the replies from CBM on the net were just "Shut up" in more or
<>less (mostly more) polite tones.
<
<Hey, not from me.  I've tried to respond to your postings with facts!

True. You didn't even ask me to take the complaints elsewhere.

<I can't believe that *you* actually said this.  My jaw drops
<in disbeief!  You are kidding, right ?  Or did you mean
<something different ?  Are you saying that you'd like the
<software authors shouldn't use the new features of an OS ???
<Is that really what you mean ?   I'm speechless!  You're saying
<that enhancements should never be added because someone *might use them* ?

No. I'm saying that I expect an upgrade that's "optional" like 1.2 &
the extra 256K, but can't be done on an A1000. Thus keeping A1000
owners from using most of the software written after that date.

<No, I think you're entirely wrong.  The expansive machine
<should have the card cage.  Why ?  Because its more expensive
<to put in a card cage.

No, *both* machines should have a SOTS expansion. And make bloody sure
that these are tagged as obscolescent. That way, people get two
machine generations (as opposed to a year) to worry about what to do
about expensive expansion products. This means that the replaceing the
expensive stuff is a fraction of the cost of replacing the CPU,
instead of more than it, later. For instance, 4 Meg of memory is $1000
now (for the chips). In three years (which seems like a reasonable
timeframe for the next Amiga) it'll probably be more like $300.

Note that people are already selling memory SOTS boxes for the A500.
So the "what do I do with the expensive hardware?" problem is going to
keep coming up for a while.

<Second, its not a SOTS interface.  It was meant to interface to
<an expansion BOX, or *ONE* SOTS.

If it walks like a SOTS, and it quacks like a SOTS, it's a SOTS.
Doesn't matter what you mean it to be - especially considering how
little I've heard about what that slot is for. Does the manual
specifically say that it's for *ONE* SOTS box?

<Just because we've experienced problems with SOTS is no reason
<for us not to tell you, a SOTS person, how to make it work with

Sorry, I've never been a SOTS person. I've avoided SOTS all along. I
got stuck trying to make SOTS work because CBM didn't bother telling
customers that the 86-pin bus being peddled by people wasn't one that
they liked. 

<Only because you don't want to adopt any of the solutions offered
<to you.  (only one of which involves changing machines)

Let's look at the solutions

	1) Run an A2000 with a new memory card.
	2) Ditto, with the cover off.
	3) Ditto, with a magic cable.
	4) Something like the A2000-n-1
	5) Try to live with what little is left of the A100 expansion market.

Three only showed up in a reply to the same posting you replied to.
That's three that require a new machine. One that requires a an
expansion box that isn't available yet - partly because CBM hasn't
been shipping cards to test them with.

<The bottom line really sounds like you've already made up your
<mind, no amount of help or advice will change it.  Which is a shame.

Right. I've made up my mind about what kind of company CBM is. As I
said before, CBM has forced me to consider buying a new machine about
halfway through the expected life of the old one. An A2000 is on the
list.  Keeping the A1000 and ignoring CBM is also on the list.  But so
is the Sun 3/[56]0, a Vaxstation, a '386 box and a Mac ][.

Anyone wanna buy an A1000? MiniRack C + 8M/4, Lattice C 4.0, MCC LISP,
Dpaint ][ (unprotected), a complete collection of Fish disks (through
110), and much other random software. Asking $2000.

	<mike
--
[Our regularly scheduled .signature preempted.]		Mike Meyer
The Amiga 1000: Let's build _the_ hackers machine.	mwm@berkeley.edu
The Amiga 500: Let's build one as cheaply as possible!	ucbvax!mwm
The Amiga 2000: Let's build one inside an IBM PC!	mwm@ucbjade.BITNET