Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!rutgers!rochester!udel!burdvax!sdcrdcf!ism780c!bill From: bill@ism780c.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix,comp.sys.ibm.pc Subject: Re: Unix V/386 -- which would you buy? Message-ID: <8000@ism780c.UUCP> Date: Mon, 23-Nov-87 00:55:48 EST Article-I.D.: ism780c.8000 Posted: Mon Nov 23 00:55:48 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Nov-87 21:53:57 EST References: <361@ddsw1.UUCP> Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Santa Monica CA Lines: 107 Keywords: Unix, 80386, Speed, Performance Xref: utgpu comp.unix.xenix:1048 comp.sys.ibm.pc:8928 In article <361@ddsw1.UUCP>, karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger) writes: > This has probably been hashed out a million times before, but... > > I'd like to ask the users of the net which 80386 Unix (Xenix) derivitive > they would buy. I know of the following companies producing a Unix(Xenix) > V/386 -- feel free to add to this! > > ..... > o Speed -- Performance is very, very important. > We will be developing code on this system -- thus, the quality of > the compiler(s) also count in a big way. Comments on both the system's > speed as a whole and on the quality of the code generated by the > compiler(s) is desired. > When INTERACTIVE did the V.3/386 port, neither Intel nor AT&T were willing to fund a sophisticated globally optimizing compiler as part of the port. The RCC compiler does a very decent job of optimization, in some cases noticeably better than several well-known optimizing C compilers. It doesn't do as well on the Dhrystone. If performance is "very, very important", you should evaluate several compilers in addition to the RCC compiler to see which performs better for you and your application. Different customers have different requirements for their C compilers. The RCC compiler is likely the most reliable C compiler available for the 386 (we have tried 386 C compilers that would not correctly compile Unix commands or even worse, would apparently compile correctly but then produce incorrect results). Once again, it depends on your needs. For example, INTERACTIVE works with their OEM's to provide alternative C compilers, or other compilers, if the OEM has the requirement for a compiler in addition to the RCC compiler. Any C compiler that claims to work with "Unix 386" (as opposed to Xenix) should work fine with any of the available "Unix 386" systems. > o Adherance to standards -- SVID is foremost, although utility-level > compatibility would also be nice. > Once again, any of the available "Unix 386" systems should be SVID compatible. They are all based on the certified port that INTERACTIVE did for AT&T and Intel. If you have any doubt, ask your supplier whether their product is based on the "certified" Unix V.3/386 release, as opposed to an earlier beta release. All AT&T licenses allowing distribution of Unix V.3/386 mandates that a vendor must ship a product based on the certified release. The certified port has been available since July. Any vendor that is not shipping a product based on the certified V.3/386 port is going to have difficulty with AT&T. > o Reliability -- We cannot tolerate a product that panics or crashes. > We *need* 9600 baud communications ability, 19,200 is desired. > > o Must handle 'smart' serial boards (requirement above mandates it). > > o Must have a full link kit (ability to handle custom drivers *AND* tune > some kernel parameters); a section in the manuals that is worthwhile on > writing drivers for the particular varient of Unix is even more helpful. > > o MUST (repeat, MUST) handle disk drives which are not in the standard > 15-type set from an IBM AT. Soft configuration (ala Microport SysV/286) > is perfect, but any other configurable solution is also fine (I'm willing > to link a new kernel to change it, for example). What is *NOT* fine is > a scheme which limits you to those types which are in your BIOS. I believe > that this disqualifies Interactive (from their literature), but perhaps > that's not the whole story... > There were more than 60 beta sites for V.3/386. The beta period lasted from November 86 until the port was certified in July. While no operating system is bug-free, the V.3/386 kernel is much more reliable than many first releases. At INTERACTIVE, we do a substantial amount of development on 386 machines running 386/ix (both AT bus and Multibus). The demand from our developers is to add more 386 machines. While it is possible that some vendors may have introduced problems with their device drivers, you should find the base kernel very reliable for development purposes. Smart serial boards: this is just a device driver. 386/ix supports several multiport serial boards (of both the smart and dumb variety) and probably most other "Unix 386" vendors also support smart serial boards. Full link kit: part of the V.3/386 port. If your vendor doesn't supply it, your vendor has broken the port. In general, anyone that provides "Unix 386" will provide the standard Unix V.3/386 link kit. The one exception that I know of is AT&T. AT&T has adopted their idconfig system for their Unix release on the AT&T 6386. Big disks: This should also be no problem. INTERACTIVE developed a standard description for disk drives that is part of the certified V.3/386 port. You should be able to install any size disk. This does depend on the device driver. If your vendor did not fully implement VTOC support in his device drivers, you may have a problem. INTERACTIVE does not have a problem with any size ST-506, RLL, or ESDI disk. The INTERACTIVE literature that may have confused you mentioned the BIOS support for the disk. What is required is that the BIOS support the disk well enough to load the kernel. After the kernel is loaded, it reads the VTOC off the disk drive and reprograms the disk controller to fully support the disk. Since the AT/386 requires that the BIOS load the bootstrap, this is unavoidable. This is particularly obvious for ESDI disks. In that case, the BIOS must support ESDI controllers and disks. The bottom line is that INTERACTIVE's 386/ix does not have a problem supporting any size disk and I would expect other vendors would be able to support non-standard disks as well. > Pricing information is also appreciated, if you have it handy.... The more > complete the better! > I should note that INTERACTIVE sells 386/ix to OEMs, system integrators, VAR's, and large end users. If you don't fit into one of those categories, you would have to get 386/ix from one of our distributors. Pricing varies somewhat between distributors but 386/ix list prices are comparable with other full-service Unix/Xenix 386 vendors. Bill Lee INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. ...!ism780c!bill bill@ism780c.ism.isc.com