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From: markh@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Mark William Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Christmas Celebration
Message-ID: <4041@uwmcsd1.UUCP>
Date: 31 Dec 87 23:45:35 GMT
References: <3445@ihlpl.ATT.COM> <7706@eddie.MIT.EDU> <5409@sol.ARPA> <7709@eddie.MIT.EDU> <22254@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <7712@eddie.MIT.EDU> <22258@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <22264@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <17787@bu-cs.BU.EDU> <5010@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>
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Reply-To: markh@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Mark William Hopkins)
Followup-To: Christmas Celebrations
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In article <5010@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> jon@oddhack.Caltech.EDU (Jon Leech) writes:
>In article <17787@bu-cs.BU.EDU> bzs@bu-cs.BU.EDU (Barry Shein) writes:
>>The only true religion is Science (also known as phenomenologically
>>provable nature worship.) It claims no authority other than that which
>>you may perceptually demonstrate for yourself and is able to yield to
>>contradictions and admit fallability. If you don't believe that then
>>next time you're sick or need a space ship built go see your
>>neighborhood shaman.
>
>    Many so-called scientists exhibit the dogmatic unquestioning
>attitudes characteristic of certain religious extremists.  But they
>miss the whole point of science that way. Make a religion out of
>science and you have another religion, not a process for finding out
>more about the universe.
>
>--
>    Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu || ...mcnc!unc!leech)
>    __@/

You're both arguing on the basis of a false dichotomy between science and
religion.
     
     To give you an example where the two overlap and coincide, I refer you
both to the research that has been done in Near Death Experiences and in
Pre Birth Experiences.  In particular, you'll find good arguments to support
the reality of these experiences.  For example, some of these experiences have
taken place DURING brain death, which obviously rules out "hallucinations" as
the source of these phenomena.
     Also, you should remember that today as we speak, existential questions
are being asked and tested in Quantum Physics.  Set Theory has successfully
probed the issue of Infinity.  There's other places where the investigations
of science overlap with the concerns of religion.
     ... but most of all, lest we forget:
     ALL religious issues are IN THE END empirical...