Xref: utzoo comp.sys.atari.st:6576 comp.sys.amiga:12022 Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!hao!boulder!sunybcs!ugmiker From: ugmiker@sunybcs.uucp (Michael Reilly) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? A nightmare... Message-ID: <7456@sunybcs.UUCP> Date: 23 Dec 87 16:16:50 GMT References: <2027@bath63.ux63.bath.ac.uk> <2969@cbmvax.UUCP> <3243@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> <7403@sunybcs.UUCP> <3258@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> Sender: nobody@sunybcs.UUCP Reply-To: ugmiker@joey.UUCP (Michael Reilly) Organization: SUNY/Buffalo Computer Science Lines: 122 Keywords: I wasn't going to reply this time, and now I am sorry I did (2 LONG) Summary: eating COLD food, and racing cars for the "POWER USER" In article <3258@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> davidli@umn-cs.UUCP (Dave Meile) writes: >In article <7403@sunybcs.UUCP> ugmiker@sybil.UUCP (Michael Reilly) writes: >>> >>>The "average user" would be satisfied with a desk accessory, while the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Do you realize, that this whole conversation started out as, "can I multitask with a little memory", and do you also realize that things like desk accessories, and carosels (sp?) and the "multifinder", and the like all take up memory, and each process run on a system with this "fake multitasking" will take up much more memory than it would on a real multitasking machine. PERIOD. Because a machine (any machine) is made with multitasking in mind, it is designed to make efficient use of it's memory, and allows more processes to be run in a small space. That is why so much memory is needed to use multifinder on the MAC. >Well, the "power user" will tell you to buy a ferrari if you want to race ^^^^^^^^^^ WHAT the H*LL is a POWER USER, someone who can do more than one thing at a time ?????? > >>"The most important concept in modern operating systems is undoubtably >>multiprogramming. By having a number of programs in memory at the same >>time, the cpu may be shared among them. This scheme improves the overall >>efficiency of the computer system by getting more work done in less time " >>---from Operating System Concepts, Peterson and Silberschatz >> for more, read chapter 4 of the above book.... > >This quote is for the "power user". I'm absolutely certain that Peterson >and Silberschatz weren't considering microcomputers when they wrote that >book. Of course, if we followed the computer science model for home >computers, we'd all be programming in ADA or Modula-2, and have degrees >in math to boot. :-) NO dave they weren't considering microcomputers, they were considering operating systems, ALLLLLLLL operating systems. A computer is only as good as the operating system available to the user!!! If you have a SUPER-FAST computer that can do one thing at a time, and it can't even do that efficiently because of the operating system, what good is it. WE all have very fast machines (st, amiga, mac) and almost all of us USE try to get the most out of our machines, multitasking helps us do that. Also Do you agree, that Joe Average user, who doesn't know how computers work, is always expecting them to work faster. As a consultant here at the university, I ALWAYS seee begining users hit a key 7 or 8 times because as soon as they hit it the first time it doesn't respond becuase the VAX has 55 people on it...They are "POWER USERS" also, they want thier power, they want Instantaneous replies, with an efficient operating system they get them. ( at least as fast as posible ) > >>> >>>Face it, most of us are (for the most part) linear beings. For single, >> That is NOT linear, humans are DEFINITELY not linear. > >Heh. Gotcha. When I make dinner (let's say Coq a Vin, wild rice with herbs, >a nice tossed salad, and chocalate torte...) I do the following: > 1. get out the recipe for each thing > 2. prepare the Coq a Vin > 3. then prepare the wild rice with herbs > 4. then prepare the chocalate torte > 5. then prepare the tossed salad. > >I do NOT cook "everything at once", I prepare things in order and let them >cook "off-line" (no CPU processing necessary, it's all I/O) :-) yeah, and you eat COLD food.... :-( I never met a CHEF who didn't think THE most important aspect of cooking was getting the food out HOT, and NOT over cooked, this all includes timing, and timing is important in computers also > >I do NOT eat "everything at once", a nicely prepared Coq a Vin requires time >to savor the flavor, and I certainly wouldn't stuff a little bit of everything >in at once. Do you eat the WHOLE Coq a Vin, then ALL the rice, then ALL the salad, cleaning (rebooting) your plate (machine) off between courses??? Or do you put them all on one plate (window) and eat (run) them all at the same time??? come on dave, DONT LIE :-) >> The classic about walking and chewing gum, is a perfect example.... :-) > >Walking and chewing gum are I/O intensive, and require absolutely no CPU ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ are you trying to tell me the "writing stuff" and "filing stuff" you do on your computer is not ??? >cycles. :-) It's analagous (mildly) to reading text on your screen while >Music Construction Set plays Bach (possible on both the Amiga and the Atari ST) > >> Well, just remember, the vaxstation is at work, but my AMIGAstation >>is at my home, right where I get MOST of my work done.... >> > >Your AMIGA is at home, and you get MOST of your work done on it. I.E. you're >a power user. For you, multi-tasking is "wonderful". I write a lot at home, >and multi-tasking is an unecessary fribjob to accomplish that particular task. > >I leave my REAL work (which requires things like UNIX and VMS and TELNET and >all of those neat things) at work. BUT DAVE !!!!! I CAN do TELNET, on my amiga, WHILE I read text and listen to Music Construction set playing Bach, and I soon will be able to (hopefully) be running UNIX in a window on a 68020, while my 68000 is hacking away at compiling the latest version of my Bugs :-), and doing the music stuff. And the Reason I get most of my work done at home is because I can dial into the school computer, make some changes in a program, compile it on unix, and instead of doing external documentation on a project through the 1200 baud (yuck) phone line, I just flip screen around, and keep on doing it right on the amiga, While the program is compiling. With a load of 45.00 on a 785, it sometimes takes a while :-) > >-- Dave (I write stuff) Meile Dave, When I first started using UNIX, the most fantastic thing for me was the ability to just through some job in the background, and go about my other business. I was no "POWER USER" just someone trying to get some work done efficiently. mike p.s. EVERYONE, HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAY, AND A HAPPY AND SAFE NEW YEAR... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Mike Reilly President of UGCSA University of Buffalo Computer Science csnet: ugmiker@buffalo.CSNET uucp: ..!{nike|watmath,alegra,decvax}!sunybcs!ugmiker BITNET: ugmiker@sunybcs.BITNET <-OR-> ACSCMPR@ubvmsc.BITNET