Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!rutgers!ucla-cs!zen!ucbvax!LAUCOSC.BITNET!POSTMAST From: POSTMAST@LAUCOSC.BITNET Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: (none) Message-ID: <8801061330.AA18036@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 6 Jan 88 13:30:50 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 463 X-Unparsable-Date: 6-JAN-1988 08:13:34.27 Mail to 85102368@LAUCOSC could not be delivered for the following reason: %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user 85102368 Original text follows: Received: from LAUVAX01(MAILER) by SMTP forwarder for 85102368@LAUCOSC; 6-JAN-1988 08:10:20.46 Received: From CANADA01(MAILER) by LAUVAX01 with RSCS id 3348 for MAILER@LAUVAX01; Wed, 6 Jan 88 08:09 EST Received: by CANADA01 (Mailer X1.24) id 3343; Wed, 06 Jan 88 08:05:22 EDT Date: Mon, 4 Jan 88 12:45:19 PST Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu Sender: INFO-ATARI16 Discussion From: Info-Atari16 Digest Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #3 To: Maury Markowitz <85102368@LAUCOSC> Info-Atari16 Digest Monday, January 4, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 3 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Cheap DIY doublesided floppy Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG Re: Hard disk boot??? RS232 Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it! Re: Multi-tasking? Re: Amiga and MIDI Re: Atari's Marketing Approach ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Dec 87 12:13:32 GMT From: mcvax!diku!iesd!judas@uunet.uu.net (Sten Kroyer) Subject: Cheap DIY doublesided floppy To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu THESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTARTTHESTART This is partially a retransmission of an earlier posting, but since I'm not sure that the first posting got around, and there's been some talk on the subject since then, here goes again. In message <236@xrns.UUCP> Tom Love writes: >hello out there... i hope i am not adding to the clamor of people >crying out for help with 5.25" drives; this is actually a different >question. i would like to have an external 3.5" DSDD floppy drive >to go along with the one already inside my 1040ST. i do not, however, >desire one bad enough to pay the $200 plus which atari dealers seem to >want to charge. i do not mind a little hardware hacking, and don't >mind scabby looking assemblies with wires hanging out all over them. In message <8712211937.AA0147@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Gregory Welych writes: >I have had one of my disk drives die on me, and rather than try to get >it fixed, (it was only a single sided drive anyways) I decided to >buy a cheap(er?) double sided drive. I hooked the new drive into >the little converter card inside an Atari drive, and connected >the power supply up. It works fine except for one slight problem >which can cause MAJOR problems with certain software. >The problem is this: > Say I boot up with disk A in drive A, and disk B in drive B. > ( drive B is the new drive ) > Then after I get the desktop, I change drive B's disk to disk C. > ( I have a window automatically opened for drive B on the desktop) > Then I hit ESC to get the new directory, but it doesn't know > I changed the disk. I am assuming that the disk drive has not reported > media change to the ST so it doen't think that there might have been > a switch. > >Now to my main question: > What in the Atari drives senses the change of media?????????!!???? > And how does the drive signal this to the ST????? > >Thanks in advance for any help, > >Greg Welych. A couple of months back, my 1040ST suddenly blew its internal doublesided floppydrive. Since this was the only drive connected, it was a disaster ! My beloved Babs was (almost) dead. She would eventually boot, and come up with an empty desktop. That's a boring game (it wasn't so :-) at the time). What went wrong, I don't know, I tried plucking everything apart to check for any loose connections etc., but no luck. A custom chip in the drive did get awfully hot though. To summarize, I found myself in a situation somewhat similar to yours: I had to get a new drive somehow. Not wanting to pay for an original Atari-drive, I came up with a reasonably cheap solution. A little research revealed that the internal drive used a standard Shugart interface (both in terms of signals AND connectors). So the problem could be reduced to finding a (cheap) bare drive equipped with the Shugart interface. That's easy enough. I picked a NEC-drive type 1036A, a drive known for its reliability and quiet operation. It's also smaller than the original Ataridrive (which seems be from Hitachi), so with a little fiddling I managed to get it crammed into place. (I had to make some minor changes to the ST-case). The proof of the pudding ? Well, I removed the old drive, plugged in the new one, turned on the power, and Babs made a successfull boot from disc and has been happily humming ever since. So to connect another external drive, all it seems one has to do is: A) Buy a bare drive. B) Pick up the floppysignals from the ST's external floppy interface. The connections are as shown (seen from the rear): 11 10 PIN SIGNAL INPUT/OUTPUT 1 read data i 9 8 2 side select o 13 12 3 gnd n.a 7 6 4 index i 14 5 drive 0 select + i 5 4 6 drive 1 select + i 7 gnd n.a 3 2 8 motor on o 1 9 direction o 10 step o 11 write data o 12 write gate o 13 track 00 i 14 write protect i + : On the 1040's external floppy interface, only the drive 0 select is active. It carries the actual drive 1 select signal. That way the external drive automatically becomes drive B. The standard Shugart interface (again as seen from the rear) looks like this: ___________________________________________________ /////////////////////////////////////////////////// <- Edge of --------------------------------------------------- PCB | 33 . . . . . . . . 1 | | 34 . . . . . . . . 2 | |----------------------| PIN SIGNAL INPUT/OUTPUT PIN SIGNAL INPUT/OUTPUT 2 motor on 1 * i 18 direction i 4 in use * i 20 step i 6 drive select 3 * i 22 write data i 8 index o 24 write gate i 10 drive select 0 + i 26 track 00 o 12 drive select 1 + i 28 write protect o 14 motor on 2/ * i 30 read data o drive select 2 32 side select i 16 motor on 0 i 34 ready * o PIN 1-33 are all connected to ground (gnd). *: Not used by the ST. +: Only one of these should be used. It might be jumper-configurable which is the active input. C) Supply the drive with some power. I'm not sure if an 1040's internal supply can cope with two drives. However, since 3.5 inch drives have a low powerconsumption (my 1036A is rated at 1.8 W), a simple 5/12 volts powersupply shouldn't be so costly. The connections looks like this _______________________ /////////////////////// <- Edge of PCB ----------------------- | ____|-----|____ | 1: +5 v dc | O O O O | 2: GND ------------------- 3: GND 1 2 3 4 4: +12 v dc D) Add cabinet to your taste. There's a tiny fly in the ointment, however. (There had to be, right?) The VBL-interrupt routine in the ST, uses the status of the WRITEPROTECT-line from the drive to check if the disc has been ejected. Since the level of this signal is reflected in the statusregister of the floppydisc-controller, all the VBL-routine has to do is read the contents of this register from time to time. For this system to function, the drive has to toggle its WRPROT-line in some fashion (which i haven't bothered to figure out), whenever the disc is ejected. This represented no problem in my case, since the latest version (which was the one I used) of NEC FD1036A, is fully "ST-modified" and thus plug-in-and-go compatible. I bought my drive in W-Germany and payed around 220,- DM, which is VERY cheap by danish standards. (#include :-( ). Well, I have to stop rambling. Let's hear more about homebrewed hardware-projects on this group. See you next time on the Newsshow. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | "I hate silly citations" "The opinions expressed above are | | Steen Kroyer hopefully not mine alone. Should | | that however, be the case, it | | only goes to show that I'm smar- | | vWWWv ter than the rest of you. (:-)" | | vWWWWWWWv | | |/~~ ~~\| | | O @ @ O judas@iesd.uucp (Steen Kroyer) | | O L O | | ( ) <- I don't really look that silly !! | | \_____/ | |____________________________________________________________________| THEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEENDTHEEND ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 87 14:40:21 GMT From: mind!romero@princeton.edu (Antonio Romero) Subject: Re: 40-folder bug and FOLDRXXX.PRG To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <910@atari.UUCP>, apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: > in article <560@pyuxe.UUCP>, crc6@pyuxe.UUCP (C. Colbert) says: > > In one of the atari periodicals it was announced that they fixed the 40 > > folder bug in the Mega St roms. > I WILL TELL YOU WHEN THE 40-FOLDER BUG IS FIXED. DO NOT BELIEVE ANY > OTHER REPORTS UNTIL YOU HEAR IT FROM ME. I AM THE ONLY PERSON WORKING > ON THIS. Uh... guys? Did you hear him say what I just heard him say? Did Alan just say that there's ONLY ONE PERSON WORKING ON THE WORST PROBLEM THEIR MACHINE HAS? Just how small an operation is Atari, anyway? (Actually, my guess is EVERYONE else is working on the 40-folder bug on the Transputer box...) When the fix is made, maybe I'll buy an Atari. I still have a certain amount of faith in Atari's ability to deliver a decent value, despite all the griping I've seen on this group since the ST came out. > > I *am* working on it, so don't despair. When the fix comes out, it will > be more sweeping than you think (unless you think big). Hmm. Does this suggest upcoming compatibility problems? Or perhaps the advent of a new operating system altogether? Could it be... MULTITASKING? Okay guys, warm up the rumor mills... -Antonio Romero romero@psycho.Princeton.EDU PS-- Hi Charlie! ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 87 15:19:00 GMT From: cca!mirror!datacube!ftw@husc6.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Hard disk boot??? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu federico@actisb.UUCP writes: > [The line eater was sleeping again ...] > In article <624@aucs.UUCP> 870646c@aucs.UUCP (barry comer) writes: > >I have a few questions for anyone using a SH204 with a Mega ST. I have a Meag2 > >with a SH204, I have being auto booting from the hard disk using HDB_V2.3, I > >used to be able to auto boot from the floppy when the CTRL,SHIFT, and ALT. > >keys were held down, well since I started using the Mega, the machine always > >boots from the hard disk with the keys down or up?????????????? > I didn't know of the CTRL-SHIFT-ALT trick, but I had a problem similar > to yours: there was no way my Mega would boot from floppy, and that > turned out to be quite a problem when a desk accessory I had downloded > from somewhere was turned unusable because of line noise. My "solution" > was not to boot from hard disk at all, which I now find better since it > allows me to choose different configurations (desk accesories and such) > depending on the job I'm going to do. I have the new ("blitter") ROMs in my 1040, and have noticed the same behavior when booting (I have a Supra disk, with their hard disk boot program installed). Anyone have a guess as to why? (hello, apratt?) > >I am also using GEMBOOT to overcome the 40 folder limit in TOS(has it been > >fixed with the new ROMS?). > I'm also interested on this question, and it has been already asked a couple > of times with no visible answer. I've never used the old ROMs, so I don't > know what the infamous "40 folder limit" means. I've had more than 40 folders > on my hard disk and nothing happened. Does this mean that the problem is > fixed? Or is it 40 folders DEEP? Au contraire, the question has been answered here before in a definitive manner. That answer is: NO The blitter ROMs do not fix the 40 folder bug. The 40 folder bug refers to a problem where a filesystem on a hard disk or diskette can become corrupted if more than 40 folders are accessed during any one "session" with an ST ("session": period of use between re-boots). A well-known workaround is the recently re-posted FOLDRXXX.PRG. Change XXX in the program name to the number of folders you think you're likeky to access during any one use of the machine, and stick the program in your \AUTO folder, and re-boot. I have heard from other netters that this bug is due to memory not being freed-up when you jumo into and out of folders (directories). Correct me if I'm wrong on that... > /////// > //____ // > Federico // // > // __ // > // / / // > /////// > UUCP: ...!mcvax!unido!tub!actisb > BIX: fheinz Farrell T. Woods Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960 VOICE: 617-535-6644; FAX: (617) 535-5643; TWX: (710) 347-0125 INTERNET: ftw@datacube.COM UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Dec 87 14:06:12 EST From: maccarle@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Carl A Maccarley) To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Subject: RS232 From Michael Czeiszperger's posting: >In article <2267@tekig4.TEK.COM> brianr@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes: >>Michael S Czeisperger: "...Midi is less of a standard than RS232..." >>Oh, Noooo! It can't be THAT bad, can it? >Oh, whoops! I didn't really mean that! I was trying to imply that >RS-232 is more of a general protocol that you'd want on a computer, >where MIDI is specialized so that it can only be used for music. If Just to add further confusion to this discussion... I'm pretty sure that EIA RS-232c is just a hardware spec, eg., voltage swing, line assignments, line loading, maximum line length, etc. I don't believe there's anything in the spec about transmission protocols, but I admit that the term RS-232 seems to have taken on a broader colloquial meaning. maccarle@ed.ecn.purdue.edu ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 87 16:03:00 GMT From: cca!mirror!datacube!ftw@husc6.harvard.edu Subject: Re: FOLDRXXX.PRG, you got it! To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu crc6@pyuxe.UUCP writes: > In one of the atari periodicals it was announced that they fixed the 40 folder > bug in the Mega St roms. If those are the same ROMs that they are selling us developers, then the answer is NO, the "40 folder bug" still exists, and the magazine article is incorrect. Neil: please jump in here if if the ROM upgrade for the 520/1040 is different than what is in the Megas. I understand they are the same. Farrell T. Woods Datacube Inc. Systems / Software Group 4 Dearborn Rd. Peabody, Ma 01960 VOICE: 617-535-6644; FAX: (617) 535-5643; TWX: (710) 347-0125 INTERNET: ftw@datacube.COM UUCP: {rutgers, ihnp4, mirror}!datacube!ftw "OS/2 -- Half an operating system" ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 87 16:13:48 GMT From: m2c!ulowell!page@husc6.harvard.edu (Bob Page) Subject: Re: Multi-tasking? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Most PEOPLE don't multitask on a computer, they task-switch. HOWEVER! Having multitasking available allows one to write (and use) programs that multitask internally - sending messages back and forth to each other, processing things concurrently rather than serially. Many nice programs on multi-tasking machines just aren't possible on any single-tasking machine because they INTERNALLY take advantage of the machine's ability to multi-task and message-pass. Examples on request, by E-mail. As a user, MultiFinder is all I want, in most cases. But n ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 87 05:04:09 GMT From: ihnp4!homxb!hropus!ki4pv!codas!killer!elg@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Green) Subject: Re: Amiga and MIDI To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <467@gethen.UUCP>, farren@gethen.UUCP (Michael J. Farren) says: > In article <2267@tekig4.TEK.COM> brianr@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Rhodefer) writes: >>If only all the originators/promulgators of RS232 had just one neck, >>and I could get my hands around it.... > > There is an RS-232 standard. You can get it from (I think) the American > National Standards Institute. I've got a copy somewhere around here > myself. In that standard, everything having to do with an RS-232 interface > is defined, carefully, from the rise times of the signals to their meaning > to the pins and connectors they are supposed to go to. Unfortunately, even if you adhere completely to the standard, half the devices in the world still won't talk to you without a breakout-box or cable switching. When the only devices extant were computers and terminals, that was no big deal, but tell me, how about hooking up a terminal concentrator/network node to printers, computers, terminals, .... We're talking BIG-time troubles here, we're talking about cabling nightmares to end all nightmares, even if the standard IS followed (and it usually isn't -- e.g. a switcher which arbitrarily decides to ignore an outgoing line if certain transitions don't occure at certain times, and a network node which refuses to give the switcher those transitions -- thus FUbaring things horribly.). I hated having to mutilate my cable to flop RxD and TxD when I hooked up an Amiga to a C-64 to transfer files at 9600 baud (yes, there's some magic involved :-). -- Eric Lee Green elg@usl.CSNET Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191 {cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg Lafayette, LA 70509 "There's someone in my head, but it's not me...." -PF ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 87 16:53:59 GMT From: voder!apple!landon@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer) Subject: Re: Atari's Marketing Approach To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Atari does a lot of "re-manufacturing" as well. Rev-A boards go in, for instance, and Rev-Ds pop out the other end. atari!jwt could probably shed more light on this subject (he has actually SEEN the plant in Taiwan), but he's probably not allowed to say much. 'tain't that interesting, anyway.... -Landon -- I speak for me. ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ************************** -------