Xref: utzoo news.misc:1075 news.config:380
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bloom-beacon!gatech!hao!woods
From: woods@hao.ucar.edu (Greg Woods)
Newsgroups: news.misc,news.config
Subject: Re: The USENET Backbone (Last changed: 10 December 1987)
Message-ID: <1072@hao.ucar.edu>
Date: 4 Jan 88 22:23:06 GMT
References: <2802@arthur.cs.purdue.edu> <14191@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> <2844@arthur.cs.purdue.edu> <14203@oddjob.UChicago.EDU>
Reply-To: woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods)
Organization: High Altitude Obs./NCAR, Boulder CO
Lines: 57

In article <14203@oddjob.UChicago.EDU> matt@oddjob.UChicago.EDU (Maxwell House Daemon) writes:
>My primary objection is that every month you post a message saying "A
>backbone site is one which has properties A, B and C."  Anyone can
>see that there are other requirements which are not mentioned.'

  Point taken. Gene should probably add "and have specifically asked to be
included on the list of backbone sites, opening themselves up to both
abuse and questions from the entire net".

>If that is the goal, then maybe the backbone should be defined as
>those sites that appear most often in the "Path" lines.

  As hinted at above, there are many such sites that do not WANT to be
listed as backbone sites. This has to be taken into consideration too.

>In that case, list the backbone SAs' phone numbers along with the
>drawing!

   In my case at least, willingness to respond to E-mail questions at
*my* convenience does NOT imply a willingness to be interrupted on the phone 
whenever any USENET reader wants to ask a question. I have a real job to do. I
answer questions to the best of my ability (and try to make appropriate
references when I don't think I have the answer) WHEN I HAVE THE TIME.
With mail, this is possible; with the phone, it isn't, at least not without
a lot of wasted time. Surely you can see that.
>?  Or like hao, which turns domainful "!" addresses into mixed "!"
>and "@"?

  Being on the backbone requires responsiveness, not perfection. Nor does
the phrase "reasonably adept" imply "knows everything there is to know
about sendmail". For one thing, this is the first I've heard of this.
To paraphrase Gene, you could have sent me mail about this before giving
me a bad name in public. Better still, you could help me fix it. My ego
isn't that big; if someone thinks I'm doing something wrong and can tell
me how (or just help) to fix it, I would be grateful. I would be grateful (and
a LOT more responsive) if you didn't flame my site all over the entire net
when I (and my site) are making every effort we can to keep this net going.

>Now we're getting down to the real intent, at least as it is
>perceived by the outsiders.  The backbone are those people who want
>to make the rules, insofar as there are any at all.

  I'd define it as "in a POSITION to make the rules", not "want" to.
There's a lot of implications in that statement that are just not reality.
None of us "want" to make the rules. We do what we feel we have to do
in order to allow our sites to remain backbones (and therefore 
continue to provide the services we currently do) and to keep the exponentially
growing net from collapsing under its own weight.

  My guess from this is that Matt wants to be a member of the backbone. Fine.
We feed them and so, to my knowledge, do at least two other backbone sites.
oddjob is also a main feed for the Chicago area (ihnp4 doesn't count.. :-)
OK, Matt, if you want to be on the backbone admins list, just ask. Send
mail to backbone@{rutgers,purdue}.edu and petition. But be careful what
you wish for; you may get it.

--Greg