Path: utzoo!hoptoad!amdcad!decwrl!ucbvax!dewey.soe.berkeley.edu!robinson
From: robinson@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Adult Illiteracy (was Re: Theological Debates)
Summary: Mr. Remedial does it again and again and...
Keywords: Comma
Message-ID: <22541@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 12 Jan 88 10:45:07 GMT
References: <4062@uwmcsd1.UUCP> <514@gethen.UUCP> <4080@uwmcsd1.UUCP> <22421@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <4107@uwmcsd1.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: robinson@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (Michael Robinson)
Organization: School of Education, UC-Berkeley
Lines: 69

In article <4107@uwmcsd1.UUCP> markh@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>In article <22421@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>  (Michael Robinson) writes:
>>In article <4080@uwmcsd1.UUCP>  (Mark William Hopkins) writes:
>>>>>   Maybe, I ought to clarify myself, as there seem to be those who haven't
>>>            ^
>>>    This is correct usage, given my intentions.  A comma denotes a pause, it
>>>was a pause that was intended here.  Are you sure YOU do not need a remedial 
>>>course?
>>
>>Wrong, again, Mister Remedial.  Is that what they're teaching you at
>      ^
>In any case, what makes the nit-pickers' position so untenable is that they 
>cannot even observe the very "rules" they set out to impose on others.

America has the highest adult illiteracy rate of any industrialized nation,
and in a selfless gesture to publicize this fact, Mr. Remedial has admitted
that not only is he in need of remedial lessons in punctuation and grammar,
but is in need of remedial lessons in reading as well.

In the section of my article omitted by Mr. Remedial (one can only speculate
as to the reason), one finds the following:

>>For your edification, the comma is used in English sentences for the following
>>purposes (none of which is to indicate a pause, but many of which are
>>indicated by a pause when spoken):
>>[...]
>>   - separates nonrestrictive modifiers and nonrestrictive appositives from
>>     the rest of the sentence 
>>[...]
>>   - separates absolute phrases, words used in direct address, and mild 
>>     interjections from the rest of the sentence

>It's
>this hypocracy that gives the proscriptivists the bad "bookish" reputation
>they have.

Let's examine the "hypocracy" (seems like remedial spelling lessons are in
order as well) of the statement in question.

	"Wrong, again, Mr. Remedial."

This sentence fragment consists of the object of "You are wrong," the
nonrestrictive modifier, "again," and the direct address, "Mr. Remedial."

Had I written, "Wrong again, Mr. Remedial," the "again" would have been
restrictive, and would not have conveyed the meaning intended, namely that,
not only are you wrong, but that you make a habit of being wrong as well.

"Wrong again, Mr. Remedial," would only convey that this was an instance of
error proceeded by at least one other.  The distinction is subtle, but, in your
case, important.

>     In any case, notice that where the two marks occur, a comma DOES denote
>a pause: the kind that we would make after uttering an expletive and before
>uttering the remaining sentence.  Basically, you have to assume that I used
>the word "Maybe" in the same way you used the word "Wrong", because I put that
>comma there consciously (on purpose) for exactly that effect.

Basically, I would have to assume that "I ought to clarify myself" is a 
nonrestrictive modifier (leaving no main clause), that "maybe" is an expletive
(a new and creative use for something used simultaneously as an adverb), that
commas are no longer used to punctuate grammatical elements, but only
"for...effect" (a new and creative interpretation of the English language),
or I could just assume you don't know what you are talking about.


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Michael Robinson                              USENET:  ucbvax!ernie!robinson
                                              ARPA: robinson@ernie.berkeley.edu